Just like the title says. WI there were no horses on planet earth? The 2 things I immediately had to think about is that its gonna be good news for China and Rome since lots of the nomadic people won't be as dangerous as in OTL. And Alexander the great might not be able to achieve what he achieved without his cavalry. Thats already 2 major history changes.
WI there were no horses
- Thread starter moetah
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Sir Chaos
Banned
Well, no horses means no rapid communication (i.e. mounted couriers), which is bad news for Rome.
It also means wheeled transport is much less capable, making transport on land more difficult, meaning civilization is more dependant on river and coastal transport.
Sir Chaos
Banned
Elephants have another problem... they can be tamed but not domesticated. Plus, elephants eat an awful lot, are frankly overkill for many applications (pulling a plough or a cart) and as you say, aren´t as adaptable to colder climates.
The American civilizations had a worse problem: they had NO domesticable animals except the guinea pig and the dog, neither of which can be ridden, or can pull a plough or cart. And they had no bronze- or ironworking, either.
The Americas also had Lama's (And Alpaca's) and Turkeys.
Albeit these where region-specific.
Albeit these where region-specific.
What do you mean by no horses? No equines, no domesticatable horses? The readication of all horses and horse-related species? Also: how? Natural disaster, disease or just freak of evolution? Any POD would be so long ago that what would result wouldn't be alternate history but a completely different earth as we know it; human civilisation from the get go would be radically different.
Meh, I'd guess that the Phalanx or spears retain their importance until the discovery of gunpowder. At the same time, medieval and classical empires will be a lot smaller than they would be in our timeline.
Of course, if we looked back far enough, I doubt we'd see many farmers anymore. We'd be more focused on hunting than farming seeing as horses were very important for agriculture.
Of course, if we looked back far enough, I doubt we'd see many farmers anymore. We'd be more focused on hunting than farming seeing as horses were very important for agriculture.
How would this effect the horse-centered nomad cultures in the steppes of Europe and Asia? I remember reading on wikipedia once (so not sure on the truth of this) that there were sizeable settlements in the Ukraine before horse-nomads settled in the area. Assuming that this is true, prehaps we would see an earlier sedentary civilisation in the European steppe. This of course would have huge effects on the rest of Europe, and on a large amount of Asia.
There wouldn't be any Romans as we know them. Or Greeks, Persians, Hittites, Urdus, Bengals...
Clibanarius
Banned
I read that one of the elephant breeds Hannibal used were 2.5 Meters.
Those are all extinct now, but I think they would be breed and trained.
So the Carthaginians and other nation with access to elephants would have a huge advantage over everyone else.
We'd see the breeding of smaller elephants and armoured elephants in war. (Hard to panic it if you can't hurt it)
The romans would adopt them as well.
We might also see things like Llama's and Donkey's being breed until they were horse sized. Chariots would still popular.
Those are all extinct now, but I think they would be breed and trained.
So the Carthaginians and other nation with access to elephants would have a huge advantage over everyone else.
We'd see the breeding of smaller elephants and armoured elephants in war. (Hard to panic it if you can't hurt it)
The romans would adopt them as well.
We might also see things like Llama's and Donkey's being breed until they were horse sized. Chariots would still popular.
A number of Andean civilizations had bronze metallurgy (although lithic technologies were still very important) and it had just spread to western Mexico by the time of European contact. "Chichimec" however is an incorrect term as it is very equivalent to the Roman concept of "barbarian" - a general Nahuatl term for "uncivilized" people north of the Mesoamerican core area.
Regarding horses, If there are simply no horses, could asses, zebras, etc have eventually been domesticated and bred to take their place? If there are no equine-related species whatsoever, couldn't camels take their place and varieties be bred to be adaptable outside of middle east and central asia?
Would it really affect the overall trajectory of civilization of there never was a domestic animal as readily adaptable to fast mounted warfare as horses? One can ride camels and they are not slow.
All of ancient history would be changed, The Hittites and Egypt would never have come to blows unless it was at sea.
It might have an effect on the speed of human migration, but there are many nomadic groups who have no riding animals.
Camels and dromedaries (perhaps) would have been used more extensively as well (Imagine an Alexander like character leading the companions from the back of Beucephalus the Camel
I don't particularly think the rise of civilization would be significantly delayed, but it's advancement might be.
It might have an effect on the speed of human migration, but there are many nomadic groups who have no riding animals.
Camels and dromedaries (perhaps) would have been used more extensively as well (Imagine an Alexander like character leading the companions from the back of Beucephalus the Camel
I don't particularly think the rise of civilization would be significantly delayed, but it's advancement might be.
The Inca had the llama and alpaca. Useful as pack animals and for wool, but not much else
It takes longer from complex human civilization to spread out of river valleys. I'm guessing we see city-states hang around longer and empires would be much smaller.
In the long run though, donkeys, zebras, camels, alpacas, and simliar animals could be bread to take their place.
A good POD could be overhunting, the same thing that happened in the Americas.
In the long run though, donkeys, zebras, camels, alpacas, and simliar animals could be bread to take their place.
A good POD could be overhunting, the same thing that happened in the Americas.
If there were no equids at all, the whole course of human history would be much different.
If there was just no Caballus ferus (wild horse)... well, probably other equids would have been domesticated. Zebras and even kiangs can be domesticated, simply horses outcompete them in most applications.
There are just too many possibilities to tell what exactly would happen, but I second the view that horse was much more important to communication than transportation or agriculture.
Looking at communication - primitive heliograph was known around 400 BCE, and then there were smoke signals and stuff like that. Horse messenger turned out to be simpler and more reliable, but, if there were no horse messengers, these technologies could see more development.
Another thing is, clocks would probably have been invented later and would not be as widespread.
No, seriously. What purpose is there in measuring time if you cannot arrive anywhere when you want because that's your donkey who decides how fast you'd move along? Even to this day, civilizations employing donkeys and other animals more stubborn that horse don't care much about time.
And then there is this fine idea...
(Pictures from here)
If there was just no Caballus ferus (wild horse)... well, probably other equids would have been domesticated. Zebras and even kiangs can be domesticated, simply horses outcompete them in most applications.
There are just too many possibilities to tell what exactly would happen, but I second the view that horse was much more important to communication than transportation or agriculture.
Looking at communication - primitive heliograph was known around 400 BCE, and then there were smoke signals and stuff like that. Horse messenger turned out to be simpler and more reliable, but, if there were no horse messengers, these technologies could see more development.
Another thing is, clocks would probably have been invented later and would not be as widespread.
No, seriously. What purpose is there in measuring time if you cannot arrive anywhere when you want because that's your donkey who decides how fast you'd move along? Even to this day, civilizations employing donkeys and other animals more stubborn that horse don't care much about time.And then there is this fine idea...
(Pictures from here)
Flocculencio
Donor
Yup- completely different. Even if you want to be generous with the butterfly net and assume that human civilisations develop as in OTL, that still means that things diverge from the point where horse nomads come along- nothing like OTL would arise after that.
No they weren't. Horses were irrelevant to agriculture in most of the world. Cattle and water buffalo were far more useful to agriculture. Horses for agriculture only really work out when (a) you've invented a way for them to pull a plow without choking, i.e. the horse collar and (b) you've got terrain and climate suitable for horse breeding on a scale that lets you actually have horses to spare for agriculture. Even then a bovid is generally cheaper, if slower. You use a tractor on a farm after all, not a Porsche.