WI: The Spanish didn't conquer the Inca Empire? How things would evolve to the Inca?

Hey, I can't really do much about your conversation and all, but let's keep things civil, even specially when desconstructing false notions that some users might have.
If I may ask, please wrap up the topic with a post or two detailing your points onto why something is a rather than b and let's either move on back to topic with new information or drop the thread, as it brought quite a bit of information and constructive discussion already.

I, for one, was pretty curious about the notion of Incas developing a "scientific" racist ideology, but that topic was kinda burried haha.
 
Hey, I can't really do much about your conversation and all, but let's keep things civil, even specially when desconstructing false notions that some users might have.
If I may ask, please wrap up the topic with a post or two detailing your points onto why something is a rather than b and let's either move on back to topic with new information or drop the thread, as it brought quite a bit of information and constructive discussion already.

I, for one, was pretty curious about the notion of Incas developing a "scientific" racist ideology, but that topic was kinda burried haha.
Yeah, this. The discussion is fine when it’s being used to say what might happen in an AH scenario, but there’s no need to turn this into a debate on the Spanish Empire.
 
You know earlier it was brought up that a possible popular import for the Inca would be the slaves to build up manpower lost due to diseases. It occurred to me with the Inca use of the Mitma system their is a possibility for it to conjoin with Atlantic slave trade. Allowing a constant source of newlabor without conquering new territories or using the their own depleted population.

Like the Inca government would buy slaves from European and try to divide the enslaved people into the roles of their former occupations and spread them across their Empire to fill in any shortages or increase productions of products or services needed for the nation.

Related to the Mitma system more specifically the people effected by it I can only wonder how it would effect both European/Mestizos Christians who where conquered by the Inca. Like maybe a possible effect is they may develop of form of Christianity that relates more Exodus and compare their captivity in the Mitma system to the Jews under the Egyptians.

Or how the possible new Diasporic African faiths that may form in Empire influenced by Inti worship and the other Gods of the Incan pantheon.
 
You know earlier it was brought up that a possible popular import for the Inca would be the slaves to build up manpower lost due to diseases. It occurred to me with the Inca use of the Mitma system their is a possibility for it to conjoin with Atlantic slave trade. Allowing a constant source of newlabor without conquering new territories or using the their own depleted population.

Like the Inca government would buy slaves from European and try to divide the enslaved people into the roles of their former occupations and spread them across their Empire to fill in any shortages or increase productions of products or services needed for the nation.

Related to the Mitma system more specifically the people effected by it I can only wonder how it would effect both European/Mestizos Christians who where conquered by the Inca. Like maybe a possible effect is they may develop of form of Christianity that relates more Exodus and compare their captivity in the Mitma system to the Jews under the Egyptians.

Or how the possible new Diasporic African faiths that may form in Empire influenced by Inti worship and the other Gods of the Incan pantheon.
If the Inca were going to import slaves, wouldn’t it make sense for the Inca to import Polynesian, Micronesian, and maybe even Melanesian slaves from Oceania rather than Africans?
 
Perhaps the Inca Empire would become something like Japan or the Ming Dynasty and would gradually either Westernize and later Industrialize like Japan or fall behind and get exploited or colonized by the Western powers like China. As others have mentioned should the Incas westernize and adopt Western European technology then we could see the Incas expand into other parts of South America and maybe even rival the European powers like Spain and Portugal providing they adapt well to Western Technology .

We could also see the Inca partake in slave trades perhaps the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade or maybe even across the Pacific with regions like Polynesia or Micronesia. We may even see the Inca adopt Christianity but that is less certain . If they do keep their Native religion then I think it may end up like Shintoism or Hinduism today and could be a major religion across South America like how Hinduism is in South Asia or Shintoism in Japan. Granted they would eventually have to get rid of Human Sacrifices and Child Sacrifices but I think that is possible . I mean Hindus today don't practice Sati anymore so who is to say Incan Polytheists would not ditch Human Sacrifices like how Hindus ditched Sati . But I am just speculating at this point and it is hard to predict how the Inca religion would evolve if the Spanish never colonized Peru.
 
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If the Inca were going to import slaves, wouldn’t it make sense for the Inca to import Polynesian, Micronesian, and maybe even Melanesian slaves from Oceania rather than Africans?
I don’t think so? Mostly due to the Pacific Ocean being obscenely large and not as much population by said people that the Inca need to make up for the huge population lose.

Also once they are connected at least the Polynesian were susceptible to diseases like the Native Americans are.

Though one thing I wonder if any colonies neighboring the Inca would ever declare independence or maintain connection to their country.
 
So in terms of the Inca, think quite possible that they survive for a while, manage to use defensively their mountain home. But people are getting ahead of themselves. Pulling a Meiji didn’t happen to societies a few thousand years ahead of the Inca. We probably came closer to 0 than 2 Meiji’s to be frank, Japan had one of the largest populations and by far highest literacy rate of the non-European powers of its day. Change is hard, requires determining what the correct measures are reliably is hard, Europeans succeed in large part because they are doing 1000 different things better. And elements in society will hate this. Just look at Madagascar or many other states. Attempts to modernize as often weakened as strengthened.

Now in what I think are more realistic terms, here is what may happen: The Inca will have several problems. They can hold interior, but Spanish will be able to build coastal forts that are impossible for them to take. European coastal forts were a problem that even states with semi-modern armies like Indian states tended to have huge problems with. So Lima, and a bunch of cousins. Realistically the Inca will have only 1 trade partner. Spanish didn’t have much competition in Western Pacific until well into 1700s. Incas are not going to get anywhere near fair market value for their gold. This though will still cause huge economic distortions. I expect resource curse issues. Wealth becomes much more about controlling and exploiting gold mines than the economy of the rest of Inca-land.

Disease will still hit *hard*. I think people overattribute the role of the Spanish. Plenty of groups saw population drop (Amazon being most extreme). It also takes a long time for bottom to be hit or any rebound to start. It isn’t so much like the Black Death as a series of them. Besides the first smallpox outbreak in 1528 (some other diseases may have been mixed in to, which may have killed 50%, over the next 100 years there were typhus, influenza, diphtheria, and measles outbreaks. Plus a second outbreak of smallpox. OTL the population may have dropped from 12 million to maybe 1.5? million in the 1600s including areas now in Chile and New Granada rather than Peru, then a final pandemic in the early 1700s reduced that to 600,000 in the districts counted. Maybe 1 million total OTL by then???

Assuming Spain follows broadly similar course, which seems reasonable, will be getting slightly less new world gold (but still all Mexican and good chunk of Andean), but still a lot. By the late 1500s, the Spanish initial wave had chilled out. Majority of the drop will have occurred by then, maybe 2 million for population accounting for loss of some peripheral areas. If Incas make it to here, I think good odds make it largely intact to 1700s. Then come the Bourbon Reforms in the 1700s. This is another risk period. European states are sending larger forces overseas. By this time New Grenada and Chile (hard to believe isn’t settlement between Mapuche and Inca power centers) are getting big enough to contribute significant numbers of militia. If they are unlikely the Spanish decide to add the gold source to their realm. If they are lucky maybe the French or British seize some of the Spanish coastal cities to get trade access (though that or fear of that could also encourage Spanish conquest). Then come the 1800s. This is probably when they finally go down if they haven’t. Repeating rifles and such meant Europeans were finally able to crush with devastating easy even previous hard nuts. Pretty much everywhere in the world became directly ruled or a vassal of Europeans and unfortunately for the Incas they have gold and silver.
 
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