WI: Pre-Columbian contact possibilities combined.

Or, The New World is discovered peppered with descendants of Pre-Columbian Old World colonists.

There are a lot of Pre-Columbian WI's out there so I wanted to combine them all into something which makes the Americas look substantially but not entirely different.

The point of this is to retain the Amerindian and Mesoamerican cultures of OTL (within the parameters allowable by butterflies) but to allow every possible Pre-Columbian contact to occur and have the newcomers co-exist with and then assimilate into the societies they come into contact with, leaving an indelible cultural, genetic, technological mark on that society. The assumption here is that disease is significantly less a factor than during the European conquest, but obviously, it will still be a factor.

Also, as another note, all colonizations here will have lost contact with their respective home nations at some point, further making assimilation by natives a likelihood.

For example:

1. A greater Norse/Viking presence that becomes friendly with and then mostly assimilated into the society and culture of the Thule. Eventually some of the descendants of this contact gradually move south, still retaining a substantial amount of Viking culture, blood, and tech in the native population.

2. As was just posted here recently by President Lenin, Abu Bakr II landing with a large force of Mali in 1311 and setting up what at first was a colony, then became a flourishing hybrid settlement which quickly grows into a thriving Muslim Afro-Amazonian culture which eventually makes successful contact with the fledgling Incas downriver.

3. Small Chinese settlements occur and have some isolated success in the New World, from Hui Shen in California before 500 CE, to Zheng He in 1421. The earlier, more northern Chinese settlements are assimilated rather quickly into hunter-gatherer tribes, but they have profound cultural, religious, and technological effects on the Western tribes containing their descendants. Zheng He's colony is slower to become assimilated into the Mexicas, but their eventual union results in Mexican hegemony in the area, assimilating competing tribes with similar force.

If you know of any more, please list them!

What are the effects of every possible slightly different (and eerily familiar) American culture being met by the Europeans during their conquest?
 

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I did a TL on the Hui Shen idea, sort of, but it was monks following him up, not he himself that found it in mine.

If you had all three of those, it would be cool. More than that and you're stretching keeping it semi recognizable or the loss of contact.

A few Polynesian influenced tribes in the Andes and California with some mixed Polynesian-Natives and more Polynesian religious beliefs, navigation, boats, pigs and chickens, the Norse interbred tribes, the Abu Bakr expedition descendents and maybe some Chinese and Japanese in small numbers does change the continent itself alot.

I would leave out Zheng He ruling Mexico as A: he was Ming loyalist and he had no balls being a eunuch, making it had to start a dynasty. B: The natives would outnumber them still. More likely it would be like the TL where the Mongols invading Java ended up in Mexico and eventually were conquered by Maya and enslaved and their good tech stolen.

Maybe in that situation there are a few isolated but more advanced than OTL native cultures with some disease experience that get colonized ALA Asia and Africa after Columbus with European colonial governments over resentful natives that get thrown out by nationalist movements later.
 
Polynesian - Native American contact. Polynesian could give pigs to Native Americans.

there are other possible contacts here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact

So what is the ultimate result upon contact if there are still identifiable (by OTL's standards) civilizations but with a lasting genetic and cultural mark of these colonists?

I'm kind of envisioning three or four blocs in the Western Hemisphere.

1. A larger and very slightly more confederated native presence in North America with some Viking tools/weapons, etc. and culture surviving in the north-east, (as well as perhaps some slightly fairer skin, nativized Nordic lore, and reddish black hair), and some Asian influences and genetic evidence in the Southwest.

2. A stronger and Sinofied Mexica with the benefit perhaps of horses and gunpowder but not guns, I wouldn't think. Bows almost definitely.

3. An Afro-Amazonian culture which infiltrates the early Incas who think they are assimilating them. Muslim Incas expand more north-east rather than south-west as a result.

And so on.

The idea is for them all to still be colonized by Europeans, but the resulting culture to be far different from OTL. The main butterflies would begin with conquest of the New World and be predominantly socio-political and cultural in nature.
 
I do too. As well as Greek and Roman ones.

Any thoughts on long term effects?

Depends when and how. For a Phonecian or a Greek colony you would probably have to weaken Rome so it does conquer Carthage or Greece. If a colony is set up at a resource rich area I can imagine it surviving quite well even if there is limited contact with the Old World. The introduction of horses would be fascinating but I have a feeling it would create a Mongol situation in the Central United States. Maybe horse back Mexica conquer a Mayan Empire? It also depends on disease and who dies and who doesn't.
 
Depends when and how. For a Phonecian or a Greek colony you would probably have to weaken Rome so it does conquer Carthage or Greece. If a colony is set up at a resource rich area I can imagine it surviving quite well even if there is limited contact with the Old World. The introduction of horses would be fascinating but I have a feeling it would create a Mongol situation in the Central United States. Maybe horse back Mexica conquer a Mayan Empire? It also depends on disease and who dies and who doesn't.

Also, keep in mind we're trying to combine all these possible contacts into one TL.
 
Also, keep in mind we're trying to combine all these possible contacts into one TL.

Indeed. Polynesian would be easy to combine as they probably made contact with the Andean civilizations anyways. Made they settle the Galapagos? Phonecian and Greek settlements could follow OTL Spain going from the Canary Islands to Cuba and Mesoamerica while the Norse follow OTL Vinland. The Chinese can maintain a small presence in the Western side of the United States (this one I think is the hardest because the Chinese were explorers yes but weren't into the whole colonize and trade thing. Merchants were looked down upon in traditional Confucian society). Mali inhabiting Brazil would be cool or were Guyana is now.
 
Horses, cattle, pigs, bees, sheep, are the big changes. European seeds would help. Smelting is next in importance.
Horses are the big deal. Horses give you trade and kingdoms.
 
There are some very fringe theories on Indian contact with the New World. If it could be true, that would lend itself to interesting Hindu-Animist possibilities.
 
The problem with the Chinese scenario is that the Mexica would be far from the first Mesoamericans the Chinese meet. The Triple Alliance was only established in 1427, and it took a while for it to grow to the size everyone is familiar with.
 
Horses, cattle, pigs, bees, sheep, are the big changes. European seeds would help. Smelting is next in importance.
Horses are the big deal. Horses give you trade and kingdoms.

Trade and kingdoms already appeared before horses but yes horses would be a key development. As I mentioned before horses would create a Central Asia-like environment in the Great Plains or spitting out barbarian invasions.

In regards to the Chinese, if they reached Mesoamerica they would probably be dealing with Teotihuacan and the Maya rather then the Mexica. But in the end butterflies massive amounts of them. A Phoncian/Greek/Roman colony would radically alter North America or South America before the others like China or Vinland even arrived.
 
In regards to the Chinese, if they reached Mesoamerica they would probably be dealing with Teotihuacan and the Maya rather then the Mexica. But in the end butterflies massive amounts of them. A Phoncian/Greek/Roman colony would radically alter North America or South America before the others like China or Vinland even arrived.
And still the OP mentions that they are "all to still be colonized by European", which I do find not entirely inevitable, maybe even implausible in fact.
 
And still the OP mentions that they are "all to still be colonized by European", which I do find not entirely inevitable, maybe even implausible in fact.

I agree. Colonization by European powers will probably involve a different set of European powers (as a surviving Carthage and Greece would not create the Spain we know in OTL). Earlier contact in my opinion would only strengthen the New World and would be a smaller culture and technology shock. Especially because the Greeks and Phoenicians were not conquers but city builders so I doubt their territories will be as massive as OTL European Empires but might have more cities.

Interesting thought but an earlier colonization could create such a strong American power it might reverse colonize Europe if the Germans and Celts and other barbarian invasions conquer Greece and Carthage.
 
Trade and kingdoms already appeared before horses but yes horses would be a key development. As I mentioned before horses would create a Central Asia-like environment in the Great Plains or spitting out barbarian invasions.

In regards to the Chinese, if they reached Mesoamerica they would probably be dealing with Teotihuacan and the Maya rather then the Mexica. But in the end butterflies massive amounts of them. A Phoncian/Greek/Roman colony would radically alter North America or South America before the others like China or Vinland even arrived.
Teotihuacan is long, long abandoned by this point, at least 700 years, and the Maya are on the far side of Mesoamerica. If they are coming from the north by land, the closest might be the Tarascans or Otomis, though neither are really significant even by Mesoamerican standards. The biggest powers close to them are the various Nahua states around the valley of Mexico, and the Mixtecs. The largest city in Mexico at this time is Cholula, although it is currently under the control of Xuexotzingo. Most of the Valley is ruled by Azcapotzalco, though in 1427 they were overthrown by an alliance between Tenochtitlan, Texcoco, Tlacopan, Xuexotzingo, and Chalca. The Mixtecs are still rather divided, Tilantongo has the greatest royal lineage and probably commands the most authority, but Coixtlahuaca is also a very strong power along with Tututepec. Zapotecs are also a moderate power of the region.
 
you should also inculde Polonesians who are just as likely to reach the new world and would bring a great sea faring heritage!
 
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