WI/AHC Christian August of Augustenburg living King of Sweden post 1810

arctic warrior

In relation to this https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-ahc-eugène-de-beauharnais-king-of-sweden.524017/ WI Christian August lives past 1810 i.e. doesn't die from a stroke on 28. May 1810 at a troop review at Kvidinge, Scania.

Christian August had military experience from defending Norway during the War of 1808-9 in a sideshow to the Russian - Swedish War in Finland. He had also served with the Austrian Army during the war of the Second Coalition 1797-1801 in the Rhineland and Tirol. As such he was viewed as the man to make Sweden retake Finland and offered the adoption by the Swedish King as heir to the throne.

His weakness in comparison to Bernadotte and de Beauharnais seems to be administrative. He didn't do much such during his short time as Governor/Statholder in Norway 1807-9 being preoccupied with military matters.
He might be able to raise a new Army for the campaign but would have to initiate this during 1810-11 so as not to collide with Naps occupation of Swedish Pommerania and campaign 1812 in Russia pushing that nation into alliance with Britain that might have allied to Sweden prior to this keeping the Russian Navy at bay and facilitating amphibious landings in Finland to shorten the Campaign.

Going early CA may have the good fortune to win Finland and if sane stay behind the 1721 borders so as not to annoy the Tsar too much though Alexander may still hold a grudge as he did 1809. And thus go at Finland once Nap is out of Russia putting Sweden back in the position of 1809 and possible wanting Norway instead of Finland.

If he wait to 1812 the French occupation of Pommerania may preclude the campaign in Finland forcing Sweden into the Coalition against Nap 1813 and CA ending up fighting his former King Frederick 6 of Denmark-Norway!
 

Kellan Sullivan

ISTR reading that CA suffered an injury that would render his ability to father heirs impossible/difficult. So he'd end up being a second Carl XIII (placeholder king) wouldn't he?
 

30PrincesAndAKing

Kellan Sullivan said:
ISTR reading that CA suffered an injury that would render his ability to father heirs impossible/difficult. So he'd end up being a second Carl XIII (placeholder king) wouldn't he?
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That might not necessarily preclude the possibility of the birth of a 'legitimate' heir, though. As long as Carl XIV August (I'm assuming this is the name he takes?) gets married, then there's a chance his wife 'takes up a duty' at conception:

Roughly contemporaneous to this, you have the example of Danish prince Arveprins Frederik. A few Norwegian historians (I can think of Bo Bramson, Henning Dehn-Nielsen, and Lars Roar Langslet) are all of the opinion that Frederik was probably impotent. Even so, four 'children' were eventually born to him (it is assumed, perhaps wrongly, that his general-adjutant Frederik von Blücher, was the biological father), including the future King Christian VIII of Denmark.

In turn, Christian VIII's son, King Frederick VII, was also rumoured to be impotent. Still, when he contracted his second marriage to Caroline of Mecklenburg, his father (Christian VIII) apparently told his new daughter-in-law that she ought to take up a duty at conception for the future of the Danish state (I really wish I could find the source for this. It was a Danish article I found through Google, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess? In any case, the paper's main argument was that Christian VIII was far more conservative and much less liberal than his (albeit limited) historical reputation would suggest, so maybe that rings a bell for someone?)

Apparently, Caroline didn't take up this duty, but the point is that Scandinavian monarchies of this time apparently condoned a certain amount of sleeping around if it meant producing 'heirs' where there would otherwise be none. Probably less so in Sweden specifically, given the poor precedent set by Gustav IV Adolf's alleged illegitimacy, but I thought it was worth noting that, legally speaking, 'legitimate heirs' are still theoretically possible.
 

arctic warrior

Modern auto translate.. Impotence as in powerlessness or faint.
Brystklemmelse - internal cramp within the chest

"During such a hunt by carelessness he aquired such evil of which he never would be fully healed; hot and thirsty he drank of a cold spring and fainted. He retained an internal cramp within the chest from which often gave him much trouble"

Doesn't give an indecation as to what he suffered and I'm no doctor.
 
wiwerse

wiwerse

30PrincesAndAKing said:
That might not necessarily preclude the possibility of the birth of a 'legitimate' heir, though. As long as Carl XIV August (I'm assuming this is the name he takes?) gets married, then there's a chance his wife 'takes up a duty' at conception:

Roughly contemporaneous to this, you have the example of Danish prince Arveprins Frederik. A few Norwegian historians (I can think of Bo Bramson, Henning Dehn-Nielsen, and Lars Roar Langslet) are all of the opinion that Frederik was probably impotent. Even so, four 'children' were eventually born to him (it is assumed, perhaps wrongly, that his general-adjutant Frederik von Blücher, was the biological father), including the future King Christian VIII of Denmark.

In turn, Christian VIII's son, King Frederick VII, was also rumoured to be impotent. Still, when he contracted his second marriage to Caroline of Mecklenburg, his father (Christian VIII) apparently told his new daughter-in-law that she ought to take up a duty at conception for the future of the Danish state (I really wish I could find the source for this. It was a Danish article I found through Google, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess? In any case, the paper's main argument was that Christian VIII was far more conservative and much less liberal than his (albeit limited) historical reputation would suggest, so maybe that rings a bell for someone?)

Apparently, Caroline didn't take up this duty, but the point is that Scandinavian monarchies of this time apparently condoned a certain amount of sleeping around if it meant producing 'heirs' where there would otherwise be none. Probably less so in Sweden specifically, given the poor precedent set by Gustav IV Adolf's alleged illegitimacy, but I thought it was worth noting that, legally speaking, 'legitimate heirs' are still theoretically possible.
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I would like to point out that, at the time, Denmark was absolutist, and would be so until 1848. Meanwhile, Swedish absolutism ended in 1715.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
wiwerse said:
I would like to point out that, at the time, Denmark was absolutist, and would be so until 1848. Meanwhile, Swedish absolutism ended in 1715.
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Wasn’t Sweden technically still absolutist or at least authoritarian under the instrument of govern,ent of 1809
 
von Adler

von Adler

wiwerse said:
I do believe @von Adler would be better positioned than me to answer such a question.
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Absolutism ended with the 1809 constitution - while the King still had some power, the power of the realm council (riksråd, proto-government) and parliament increased. The King appointed the concil, but the individual councillors were responsible to the estates parliament. The King still held substantial power, but the right to change the constitution, make laws and declare war laid with the parliament.
 

Mikestone8

arctic warrior said:
Sweden did ask his brother after his death who was willing but Danish King Frederick 6 who effectively barred him from going with a Naval blockade.
Look up #9 it wasn't impotence as in sexual impotence.
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Could Frederick have gotten away with that had CA lived past 1815? He was, after all, on the losing side in the Napoleonic Wars
 

arctic warrior

Mikestone8 said:
Could Frederick have gotten away with that had CA lived past 1815? He was, after all, on the losing side in the Napoleonic Wars
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If CA lived past 1815 he might have sired offspring. Then Augustenburg being situated on Danish ground wouldn't be a problem for Frederick to blockade if he wanted though the situation might have changed in alt-1815+. Also by 1814 Frederick was already shaken by the losses so his outlook would be different ITTL past 1815.
 
wiwerse

wiwerse

Jurgen Wullenwever said:
What happened in 1715? Was Charles XII less in power for the last three years?
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My apologies. When I wrote the post, I had less access to my books. According to Robert I. Frost, in Northern Wars, Swedish absolutism started being dismantled after the death of Charles XII in 1718, due to him stubbornly refusing to make peace prior to his death.
 

30PrincesAndAKing

30PrincesAndAKing said:
I really wish I could find the source for this
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I know literally nobody cares, but I finally found my own source! It's by Viggo Sjøqvist. Anyway, the quote about Caroline of Mecklenburg is: (in Danish): "J.P. Trap, der i mangt og meget er en usaedvanlig taktlos memoireskribent, i hvert fald efter datidens malestok, viger ikke tilbage fra at insinuere, at kongen anbefalede den stakkels prinsesse at tage en stedfortrseder ved undfangelsen."

(in English via Google translate): "JP Trap, who in many ways is an unusually tactless memoir writer, at least by the standards of the time, does not shy away from insinuating that the king recommended the poor princess to take a deputy at conception."

Sjøqvist also touches on Christian VIII's own illegitimacy here: (in Danish): "Man kan her sporge, hvorvidt Christian VIII vidste noget om sin egen afstamning? Noget entydigt svar er det ikke muligt at give, men det kan naevnes, at der blandt kongens papirer findes en optegnelse fra ca. 1815, der ikke blev taget med i dagbog 11, og hvoraf det fremgar, at han var klar over, at hans moder for 1780 ikke kunne forventes at fa born."

(in English via Google translate): " One may here ask whether Christian VIII knew anything about his own lineage? It is not possible to give any unambiguous answer, but it may be mentioned that among the king's papers there is a record from approx. 1815, which was not included in diary 11, and from which it appears that he was aware that his mother for 1780 could not be expected to have children."

Obviously, this is only tangentially related to the thread, but now I've actually made it possible to check my own work lol
 
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