So we have officially crossed the word limit compared to the old version of this TL. I can officially say this rewrite is now better off compared to the original TL. It has more words and is currently covers a longer timeframe with even more stuff and events happening. Also, if you haven't read the Charles the Bold's new wiki page 10/10 recommend far better than the old one :D
 
So we have officially crossed the word limit compared to the old version of this TL. I can officially say this rewrite is now better off compared to the original TL. It has more words and is currently covers a longer timeframe with even more stuff and events happening. Also, if you haven't read the Charles the Bold's new wiki page 10/10 recommend far better than the old one :D
Amazing work! Philip is making good process with a few bumps in the way. Can't wait to See his work on England!
 
the inspiration that helps you write SO well
I read the Austro-burgundian collab TL back in like COVID I think?
Blueflowwer's TL is amazing in terms of getting inspiration (I'm quite jealous of how she knows all the people in Burgundian court so well)
I did a heck of a lot of research, had to read all of Richard Vaughan's books on Burgundy.
Read the universal spider king in order to understand Louis' goals in terms of Burgundy.
Read a book on the Burgundian court which wasn't as helpful to me ;-;
And like I'm already quite mad at myself cause I had to draw from wikipedia (which isn't very helpful) in terms of getting stuff revolving Savoy, and the Holy Roman Empire especially the Rhine electors.
Yea generally speaking if you want to write about Burgundy you have to understand two things, Charles was not actually bold in terms of his foreign policy, he was bold in his internal administration. He also was not the military genius that he claims to be, and you have to fundamentally change how he does both of these things like I have (by having him govern longer) if you don't want to write a Burgundian wank.

Secondly, you have to understand especially the dukes after Charles the Bold, all wished to build a Burgundian state/kingdom, you can ask Marie of Burgundy who arguably did more in terms of state building than Charles since she practically kept Burgundy intact, Philip the Rich who died young basically removed the great privilege which further centralized the realm and Charles V who united the 17 provinces in the pragmatic sanction. Ironically there were no "bad" dukes of Burgundy until after Charles V's death.
 
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I read the Austro-burgundian collab TL back in like COVID I think?
Blueflowwer's TL is amazing in terms of getting inspiration (I'm quite jealous of how she knows all the people in Burgundian court so well)
I did a heck of a lot of research, had to read all of Richard Vaughan's books on Burgundy.
Read the universal spider king in order to understand Louis' goals in terms of Burgundy.
Read a book on the Burgundian court which wasn't as helpful to me ;-;
And like I'm already quite mad at myself cause I had to draw from wikipedia (which isn't very helpful) in terms of getting stuff revolving Savoy, and the Holy Roman Empire especially the Rhine electors.
Yea generally speaking if you want to write about Burgundy you have to understand two things, Charles was not actually bold in terms of his foreign policy, he was bold in his internal administration. He also was not the military genius that he claims to be, and you have to fundamentally change how he does both of these things like I have (by having him govern longer) if you don't want to write a Burgundian wank.

Secondly, you have to understand especially the dukes after Charles the Bold, all wished to build a Burgundian state/kingdom, you can ask Marie of Burgundy who arguably did more in terms of state building than Charles since she practically kept Burgundy intact, Philip the Rich who died young basically removed the great privilege which further centralized the realm and Charles V who united the 17 provinces in the pragmatic sanction. Ironically there were no "bad" dukes of Burgundy until after Charles' death.
Very nicely laid out. And no shame on wikipedia, that site helped me out on countless homework.
 
Very nicely laid out. And no shame on wikipedia, that site helped me out on countless homework.
There's no detail tho, like I have no idea what Philip the Upright did in his time, and I had to cross reference so many goddamn electors in order to figure out how an independent Burgundy would interact with them and I barely get anything from it ;-;
 
There's no detail tho, like I have no idea what Philip the Upright did in his time, and I had to cross reference so many goddamn electors in order to figure out how an independent Burgundy would interact with them and I barely get anything from it ;-;
Understandable,
 
Chapter 13: The last web of the spider 1476 - 1483
Philip the Rich would play incredibly cautiously towards the aging Louis XI, the marriage with Anne would not soften the hostile attitude between France and Burgundy, however Philip's ascension as count of Champagne would start a chain reaction in the relationship between Burgundy and France. Philip would pay homage to Louis XI as count of Champagne jure uxrois despite the treaty of Conflans stating that Philip did not have to pay homage and the declaration of Malines declaring all Burgundian fiefs in France to be independent and subject only to the Duchy of Burgundy. The reasons were mere placation as the Burgundians would not risk war neither could they risk their independence so when Philip arrived in Louis' court in 1476, Anne would be first paying homage as Countess of Champagne with Philip following afterwards declaring by the right of his wife, he paid homage to Louis as Count of Champagne.

The show of proclaiming Anne to rule Champagne above Philip would not please Louis in the slightest but any further prodding against the Burgundians would be met with war against France for not respecting the treaty of Beaune. The French would not remain idle in this new power struggle against Burgundy, and relations would return to pre-1471 as the parlament of Paris, royalist officers and the general estates of France began to slowly strip Burgundian sovereignty. Anne and Philip however, much to Louis' anger would severely limit these efforts by returning to old tactics of intimidation throwing out any judgement made by the parlament of Paris or the estates of France, Burgundian diplomats returned to an old tradition of nailing treaties to the doors of the French courts. Throughout the years of 1476 - 1480 various minor conflicts would emerge, the most famous of these would be the seizure of Saint-Pol, in 1478 Louis XI would try to reinstate Peter II, count of Brienne to his titles of count of Saint-Pol, and Ligny. He would argue based on the paying of homage would restore the suzerainty of France over Burgundy.

This affair would nearly bring Burgundy and France to war, as Charles would refuse to reinstate Peter as a the count of Ligny as Burgundy seized the land directly, he also argued in the treaty of Beaune and Senlis, Saint-Pol was given up to Burgundy and Louis had no rights to assert his suzerainty over it. This would go back and forth as both parlaments would continue to press each other to give up Saint-Pol to Peter or to Burgundy. However the secret negotiations between Philip and Peter would turn Peter into a new Burgundian partisan, appointing him as a knight of the Golden Fleece and giving him a pension and the position of governor of Saint-Pol in exchange for him giving up his claims over Ligny and Saint-Pol. Similar instances of Burgundian-French shadow politics would continue throughout Burgundy and France until the death of Charles the Absolute.

Philip the Rich would spend his time in Brabant in 1480, after Charles' death, Philip would send word to Louis that he would not pay homage to him as the new count of Bar, until after the funeral of Charles and this funeral was elaborate and extravagant. Margaret would cry for days with the loss of her husband while Philip and Anne would grieve quietly while slowly taking over the government and strengthening the already strained administration. The estates of Burgundy would recognize Philip as their new duke during the autumn days of 1480, Philip would be proclaimed by the full estates as Philip I of Ponthieu, Lorraine, Guelders, and Zutphen, Philip II of Luxembourg, Hainaut, Auxerre, Holland and Zeeland, Philip III of Brabant, Limburg, and Lothier, Philip IV of Burgundy, Boulogne, and Flanders, Philip V of Namur, Philip VI of the Free County of Burgundy, Macon, and Artois, and finally, Philip VIII of Vermandois. This was considered unprecendented in Burgundian history as the previous four dukes, the Duke of Burgundy would head to the various estates individually and be acknowledged as their new ruler but thanks to Charles and Philip's reforms in terms of administration, the general estates of Burgundy would acknowledge collectively Philip as their new duke. The coronation was elaborate and long, as every day a new coronation for a specific county, or duchy would take place with Anne who at this point did not enjoy the successive coronations and oaths she swore to uphold the existing status quo when they ascended as duke and duchess. John, Philip's little brother would be immediately proclaimed as the new count of Charolais and would ascend as John VI of Charolais and in 1481, Philip would finally arrive in France and would be acknowledged as Philip III of Champagne and Philip I of Bar respectively paying homage to king Louis and kissing his ring.

The amount of time that it took for Philip to arrive in France to pay homage and service to the king would not please Louis but the incredibly old and sick king was more concerned regarding his own succession, his heir Charles VIII was quite sickly and not as energetic as Louis had hoped. The death and collapse of the house of Valois-Anjou has given the King a very strong reason to invade Italy as the near vassalage of Savoy and the alliance with Milan for Burgundy. King Louis would hope the seizure of Naples for himself would balance it out along with his alliance with Florence. More importantly to Louis was the inevitable regency, right now his only option was to appoint his wife Charlotte of Savoy and full regent but her health has not improved since the illness of 1461, Louis was unsure she could continue the regency until Charles came of age. It would be even worse with Charlotte's death as the regency claims would fall upon Orleans in the form of Louis XII who Louis believed was a firm Burgundian ally, and even worse Philip the Rich by the right of his wife would press his regency claim.

Louis XI of France would exercise a huge amount of energy in the security of the house of Valois-Anjou. In 1480, Louis would seize Anjou and Maine from Rene and Charles and would demand that these lands along with their inheritance in exchange for a pension for the two. Charles the Absolute who was convinced by both his heir and Rene II of Lorraine would intervene and force Louis to relent in the Treaty of Angers. The following exchanges between the powerful nobles would be considered by Philip a betrayal of Burgundian chivalric values that Charles had insisted on. The will of Rene of Anjou would be ignored in this case as Louis demanded Rene II of Lorraine to be handed over for treason against the French crown. Philip who personally enjoyed the company of the young and passionate Rene would try to convince his father to refuse but Charles agreed to hand him over. Charles' main logic was the security of his conquest of Bar and Lorraine which would be secured in the treaty of Angers. In fact during these negotiations, Charles forced Louis to agree to Rene's death in order to further secure his conquests from the former duke. Louis would walk away from the treaty securing the inheritance of all of Valois-Anjou except Bar and Lorraine while Charles would gain further security for his conquests and importantly another legal refusal of homage as the new Duke of Bar.

The problem of the regency would take Louis' entire energy and cleverness to set an equilibrium, he would restore the marriage between Peter II of Bourbon with Marie d'Orleans in 1482, finally allowing the marriage to take place, he also took note of John of Bourbon's lack of heirs and rightfully believed his inheritance would fall to Peter thereby uniting the ducal inheritance of Bourbon. He would give the future Louis XII, Normandy as a new appanage in 1482 and would gift his son direct lands of Berry and Aquitaine or Guyenne. This purposeful weakening of the crown was intentional in order to give his heir a strong power base to draw from. He would also strengthen the estates with the estate summoning of 1481, thereby recognizing the scheme, which placed Bourbon, Orleans, and Champagne along with his royal advisors all of equal position in case Charlotte of Savoy died early in the regency. What was even more complete thanks to the coronation of Anne as countess of Champagne he declared that Philip who had no fiefs in France itself could not partake in the regency as he declared that only the immediate family of his heir could partake in the regency and the most prominent nobles of the realm and those whom he trusted.

This was a double edged sword for Philip, as now the King of France renounced his suzerainty of Bar, which immediately swore allegiance to Philip's duchy of Burgundy thereby bringing the small duchy into the general estates of Burgundy further centralizing his realm but it removed Philip any opportunity to even interfere in regency affairs for France. Philip would do his best stopping this agenda arriving at the general estates of France in 1481, arguing that the king can not remove the duchy of Bar voluntarily from the crown to which the marshal of France responded, "And what of the treaty of Beaune or the declaration of Malines?" This rebuttal humilated the young duke and eventually with the estates agreeing to the agenda Philip immediately declared that he was still Count of Champagne jure uxrois to stop the royal guards from unceremoniously removing the young duke. Philip and Anne would still leave with dignity and pride as count and countess but the removal of Bar would still pose a problem to the young duke.

Savoy would prove to be quite difficult in reigning in as a new large de facto vassal of Philip. The death of Yolande de Valois, would remove the regency of Philibert of Savoy and he was still 13 years of age. Charles would claim the regency of the young boy in 1478 with the death of Yolande through a mixture of force of arms and proximity of blood claiming his lineage from his great-aunt Mary of Burgundy. This claim was dubious at best if not downright fabricated at worst as Louis XI was far closer in terms of proximity of blood but with the Savoyard nobles especially in the Vaud region swearing unofficial loyalty to Charles and the Emperor Frederick III recognizing his regency by 1479, Charles de facto assumed the regency although on paper it was a regency of the nobility or an interregnum if you will. Philip's ascension as duke would not change this dynamic but competing interests especially Milan's would prove even more difficult for Philip to rule over the final two months of his regency, with Philibert reaching the age of 15, Philip wisely dissolved the regency and declared Philibert to be capable of rule, unfortunately his death in 1482 would prove to be even more of a pain for Philip as the new heir Charles was still underage with Philip once again forced to quietly influence the regency. This continued meddling in the affairs of Savoy would cement Burgundian influence in the north but the encroaching Burgundian influence would be considered a threat by remaining Italian states.

The sudden death of King Edward IV of England and later afterwards King Louis XI of France would force Philip to completely devoted his time and affairs in Western Europe as England was now under the regency of Richard, Duke of Gloucester a pro-Burgundian ally and Philip would arrive at the general estates with his wife to see her sworn into the regency council of France under Charlotte of Savoy who was leading regent for the time being. The following years of 1483 - 1486 would see Philip relentlessly devote his energies into securing France and England as Burgundian allies/subjects and by the end of this great project Burgundy would finally reach its long dreamt and long awaited golden age.
 
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AH FRICK I FORGOT THE LAST PARAGRAPH XD alright we are good I'll see all of you in either France or England depending on what y'all want. I may also do a separate paragraph for Anne's coronation soon.
 
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AH FRICK I FORGOT THE LAST PARAGRAPH XD alright we are good I'll see all of you in either France or England depending on what y'all want. I may also do a separate paragraph for Anne's coronation soon.
Amazing work! Philips little brother is ever closer to the English throne!

And finally the spider is gone!
 
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Chapter 13.5: The king without a crown (This is an extra LOL)
The general estates of Burgundy would be a very unique early form of a legislative body as the majority of its work was purely financial as the chancellor of Burgundy would ask the general estates for levies of men or extra taxes in the form of aides. This early form of legislation would partake under the reigns of Philip the Good, who would mainly use this to initiate dialogue between the northern lands of the Burgundians, which were Flanders, Holland and Brabant. The augmentation of the estates under Isabella of Portugal can not be understated as she expanded the cooperation into interstate trade and smoothened relations over between the now united duchies.

Charles the Absolute would begin to expand but also gut the general estates, while still using them to consult on aides. Charles would begin to expand the size of the general estates, incorporating all of the independent fiefs he gained in the declaration of Malines in 1471. In 1476, with the annexation of Lorraine, Burgundy and its southern neighbours and dependencies would join it even further. Charles would employ the estates for mostly advisory and financial purposes. It would be used as a state tool of propaganda while the majority of taxation, military levies, judicial conduct, economic planning, executive and legislative planning would be done through the other instruments of Burgundian governance.

Philip the Rich would consolidate all of these various institutions of Burgundian government to be directly subservient to the general estates of Burgundy and the duke himself granting near immense power with the reforms of his father Charles the Absolute. This would streamline and make it far more efficient in terms of governing Burgundy and various unique privileges were stripped away from the vast Burgundian domains and Burgundy as a whole would be united and further consolidated under the Burgundian estates which were instruments of Burgundian Absolutism.

It would be in this environment Anne would be crowned, Anne I of Burgundy, Free County of Burgundy, Artois, Flanders, Macon, Hainaut, Namur, Holland, Zeeland, Brabant, Limburg, Lothier, Boulogne, Vermandois, Auxerre, Luxembourg, Ponthieu, Lorraine, Guelders, and Zutphen. She was already coronated as Duchess of Bar and Champagne back in 1476 and 1477. What was interesting about this coronation was Burgundy refusing to coronate both Philip and Anne as Barons of Salins and Bar-sur-seine. Perhaps it was a matter of pride or ego for the two as the refusal to be coronated for minor territories such as the barony of Salines, or the Bar-de-seine. Historians would argue it was down to a mixture of pride for the couple and practical logic as it would just drag on the lengthy coronation process as both lands were subservient to Champagne and the Free County of Burgundy anyway. Importantly for the two was that neither of them were coronated in the duchy of Frisia or duchy of Alsace as those two would be established in 1486. Arguably the Burgundians had merit to at least crown themselves duke and Duchess of Frisia as the counts of Holland claimed the title since the house of Holland in the 11th century claiming the title of lord of Friesland. Philip would pragmatically choose not to arguably because he had no use of de jure titles.
 
An incredibly short one, but this is sorta a tease of Burgundy's government under Philip the Rich specifically the general estates and the whole bunch of research for Anne's coronation number. TURNS OUT ANNE IS JUST UNIQUE AND WILL BE ADDRESSED AS ANNE I of anything :D
 
An incredibly short one, but this is sorta a tease of Burgundy's government under Philip the Rich specifically the general estates and the whole bunch of research for Anne's coronation number. TURNS OUT ANNE IS JUST UNIQUE AND WILL BE ADDRESSED AS ANNE I of anything :D
Anne has no need of any numeral as she is not a ruler but a simple consort everywhere but Champagne. And there she would be Anne, Countess of Champagne as she would have no need of a number until a second Anne would be ruling Countess of Champagne
 
Anne has no need of any numeral as she is not a ruler but a simple consort everywhere but Champagne. And there she would be Anne, Countess of Champagne as she would have no need of a number until a second Anne would be ruling Countess of Champagne
It's fine XD think of it as just a pet peeve of mine LOL
 
Chapter 14: The nobles above the crown 1475 - 1486
Edward IV of England lead an incredible reign of stability by the treaty of Picquigny with practically no enemies in his court and with his sister the Duchess of Burgundy, and his daughter as the future dauphiné of France. Edward has practically united the bloody and fractured kingdom of England and lead it into a new reign of peace. Arguably, Edward merely spent his time in court dealing with the nobility and dealing with the remaining Lancastrian elements. The person who would personify this era of peace was Richard, Duke of Gloucester. He would lead a brutal pacification of the north and would begin to prepare to subjugate Scotland, who Edward would support a pretender to further English interests by 1482. This low intensity war between England and Scotland would be engineered by King Louis XI who wished to break the betrothal of Dauphin Charles in order for him to marry Anne of Brittany who would in theory unite Brittany and France together. The restoration of the Auld Alliance would force Richard to stay north away from royal affairs as he began to lead raids into Scotland and soon a full invasion signing a favourable peace in 1482. Edward would still not trust the Scots and backed another pretender rebel and would begin preparations for another invasion of Scotland.

Edward's sudden death in 1483 would reignite a new rivalry, this time between the Yorks and Woodvilles. The Woodvilles led by the new queen dowager sought to remove Richard from his role as lord protector by having Edward V of England's coronation happen early so that no regency and thereby no lord protector would occur but Margaret of York who was already in England and in London would absolutely refuse this as she was sent there by Philip in 1480 in the hopes of breaking the engagement between Elizabeth of York and Dauphin Charles. The presence of Margaret of York would complicate things for the woodvilles, as she was there continuously speaking to Edward IV during his deathbed and arguably her influence over the young Elizabeth of York would prove to complicate things. The removal of the betrothal of Elizabeth of York to Dauphin Charles in 1482, by Louis XI would give Margaret of York an incredible opportunity by convincing Edward IV of England in once again the marriage between Elizabeth and John which all parties agreed to happen, signing the official betrothal in late 1482. Margaret and her Burgundian councillors would form a third front as the will of Edward IV named her as the executor of the will. She demanded the royal council wait until the new regent, Lord Protector of England, Richard Duke of Gloucester preside over the council before any decisions happen.

John was given the county of Holland to as his new fief under the Burgundian state with the birth of Charles II of Charolais. This would further sweeten the deal for Richard III who already reaffirmed the betrothal of Elizabeth and John with the marriage to take place in 1485, while Philip would still rule Holland directly through the usage of the general estates and the various other instruments of governance. Philip was prepared with the ascension of Richard III to give up his title of Holland to his brother John in order to strengthen his English ties but with the news of the reported murder of Edward V and Richard Duke of York, he privately confessed to his step-mother that John could prove to be the stabilizing influence of England that it so desperately needed after the death of Edward IV.

Richard now Lord Protector of England, would arrive in London only to see the firmly stacked royal council led by the Queen, Elizabeth Woodville nullify the will by declaring a coronation within the month of Edward V, king of England. Richard and Margaret were both pissed at this monopolization of power by the woodvilles. Margaret would form what can be described as a triumvirate with Lord Hastings and Richard arresting Earl Rivers and capturing the king. This seizure of the king would force Elizabeth Woodville to flee to the sanctuary of Westminster Abbey. Events began to rapidly progress as Richard as Lord Protector declared the royal council who dared strip him of his rights as Lord Protector were traitors and declared them guilty of high treason.

The jar was open however, as the woodvilles declared the act illegal and practically went through a shadow war over control of the young king, the compromise was that the king would coronated on June 22 1483 much to Margaret and Richard's anger who both believed the age of acting was far older for Richard it was age 16, the traditional age of young English kings, while for Margaret it was a more respectable 19. Richard would threaten to force the young Duke of York, also named Richard to be sent into the tower on London, almost breaking sanctuary rules by using the Archbishop of Canterbury to force Elizabeth to fold. Richard at this point advised by the devious Buckingham would force through the act of Titulus Regulus due to Edward V firmly siding with the Woodvilles, thereby nullifying Edward V's claim to the throne. Philip would recall Margaret to return to Burgundy, believing and convincing her that this civil war was too dangerous to risk her life. Philip would also importantly declare that his claim to the English throne was transferred to his younger brother John as in 1482, Anne gave birth to a new heir Charles II of Charolais. Richard would ascend the throne as Richard III of England, while the two dispossessed young king and Duke of York would be sent to the Tower of London, quietly murdered with Richard's agreement.

Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII of England would form an alliance with Elizabeth Woodville agreeing to a new marriage breaking the betrothal of John and Elizabeth in order to marry Henry to Elizabeth and the ascension of Henry as king. Margaret of York would return to England once again in 1484. This time once again negotating with Beaufort and the Woodvilles, saying her son John had a better claim than Beaufort and she could secure Elizabeth Woodville and her families safety in Burgundy. Elizabeth Woodville would refuse her ambition blinding her. However, Elizabeth of York who listened hours on end of the prosperity and wealth of Burgundy would confide in Margaret of York saying she would love to. Margaret would arrive at Richard's court in the middle of Buckingham's conspiracy, as the Yorkist foundation was split between Richard, Margaret and the Woodvilles. Henry VII would form a new court in Brittany acting as a pretender king of England. He would receive support from Louis XII, Duke of Orleans and now regent of France who supported Henry's cause with troops and support.

The battle of Bosworth in 1485 would see Margaret of York along with Elizabeth of York flee to Calais as Philip was ordered to seize the city with force of arms when Richard III died in battle. Henry VII would be crowned in the middle of battle but now his claim was firmly aloof as the senior Lancastrian blood compared to Henry VII now firmly pushed by Margaret's son John with an additional Yorkist claim by his mother and his betrothal of Elizabeth of York. The woodvilles were furious over the flight of the future queen, as now both the Lancastrian and Yorkist base began to unite not around Tudor but around Calais as John would form a new rival court in Calais firmly backed by Burgundy. Philip who also had a hand in the regency would be able to extract Louis's support for England to be removed. A papal dispensation by Innocent VIII would allow the marriage to take place in 1486 between Elizabeth of York and John II of England.

Henry VII would seize the majority of English lands due to him claiming the right by conquest and would also marry Cecily of York who Henry VII forcibly broke the marriage of her with Ralph Scrope. This act already shunned even more allies from Henry VII's side and in 1486 in the battle of Canterbury, which was now lead by both John and Philip. Henry VII would be captured and summarily executed in London for treason against Richard III and John II of England. John II would also repeal the Titulus Regulus giving Elizabeth of York technical status as Queen of the Yorkist Claim and himself with Yorkist and Lancastrian Blood. Again the use of the right of conquest would be used seizing various other lordships, duchies and earldoms. John II would be known by the epithet of the fair as he would reconcile with his mother in law, Elizabeth Woodville but the majority of England's governance when John just ascended the English throne was done through his mother duchess and queen dowager of England and Burgundy: Margaret of York.

Immediately following the ascension of John II of England to the English throne, the Burgundian-English relations began to fundamentally change. John would immediately exchange the County of Holland for the pale of Calais as Philip immediately annexed the land firstly for the county of Boulogne but fundamentally to give John a base of power for this claim. England would also not wish to be subject to the whims of the Holy Roman Emperor and the transfer was immediately agreed upon in the peace of Calais in 1486. The lighting paced events of the death of Edward IV would lead to the three years of three kings, Edward V, Richard III and Henry VII but importantly by the end the ascension of the house of Calais itself a branch of the house of Valois-Bourgogne would strengthen keep the Burgundian-English Alliance until the house's fall and the unification of the British Isles under the house of Stuart.
 
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