Too big to succeed? 'Rightsize' an overextended nation or empire

Some nations were simply too big to effectively manage with the communications systems of the times. Others included restive minorities that cost too much in blood and treasure to subdue over the long term. Choose a nation you think grew beyond its means and specify which parts you would remove to increase national prosperity, security, or diplomatic influence.
 
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First French Empire: Naples should have stayed with Joseph, they had no bussiness in the mess that was Spain at the time, Holland stayed with Louis, Italy would have gone to Eugene, Warsaw never to exist to appese the russians.
 
I wonder if there's also the inverse: a country that would have done better had it expanded (perhaps expanding to a defensible frontier?)

On the main topic, there are very many cases in the Middle East and Africa where ethnic conflicts tore apart countries and one possible solution was pre-emptive balkanization.
Napoleon's French Empire: do not go into Russia or put Joseph on the Spanish throne.
 
Justinian, baby, what is you doin

EDIT: Napoleon too, if you count the vassal stuff like Spain. Not counting Russia because Nappy never actually annexed territory there
 
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The British empire - most of India was unnecessary as was parts of inland Southern Africa

I partly agree with your suggestion on the British Empire, but more than India, I would say that the truly useless colonies were almost all the African ones ( except Egypt and South Africa ) which were only an economic and a useless dispersion of men who could have been more useful elsewhere ( Mhm perhaps in the Cape Colony, so as to consolidate the region, Nah, much better to send 80 thousand English people to Kenya, 30 thousand to die on the Goald Coast or even 250 thousand in Rhodesia 😜🙄😇 )
 
The pre-division Roman Empire existed for centuries and was even bigger than Justinian's ERE, so I don't necessarily thing it was the case of "too big to succeed".
No, but given Justinian’s logistics versus the newly established powers in formerly Roman lands like the Gothic nations, I’d argue that his conquests were too big to work the way he wanted in the specific time period.
 
The only example I can think of was Charles V's European domains. Hence why he himself split them on inheritance.
Most other overextensions were swiftly fixed anyways, or in the case of Justinian, doomed by unfortunate external factors (plague and a poor harvest).
 
No, but given Justinian’s logistics versus the newly established powers in formerly Roman lands like the Gothic nations, I’d argue that his conquests were too big to work the way he wanted in the specific time period.

I think had the Lombard and Arab invasion not happened, his succesors would have decent shot for full RE restoration.

The only example I can think of was Charles V's European domains. Hence why he himself split them on inheritance.
Most other overextensions were swiftly fixed anyways, or in the case of Justinian, doomed by unfortunate external factors (plague and a poor harvest).

The only thing he splitted was Austria, not worth much in comparison to his other domains.
 
The Russian empire is one that was always heavily overextended. Outside of the three slavic nations of Russia, Belarus & Ukraine, direct rule made no sense. But neither should they be removed completely due to geopolitical reasons.
 
The only thing he splitted was Austria, not worth much in comparison to his other domains.
But that's the point, Austria and its associated domains were very peripheral to Spanish interests and forced Spain to play a different game, so they were recognized as a liability and spun off; most other historical gains simply were a bit too much of expansion in a desirable direction, but their 'too much-ness' became only apparent after a while and often still helped protect other, more integral areas, from direct threat.
 
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I partly agree with your suggestion on the British Empire, but more than India, I would say that the truly useless colonies were almost all the African ones ( except Egypt and South Africa ) which were only an economic and a useless dispersion of men who could have been more useful elsewhere ( Mhm perhaps in the Cape Colony, so as to consolidate the region, Nah, much better to send 80 thousand English people to Kenya, 30 thousand to die on the Goald Coast or even 250 thousand in Rhodesia 😜🙄😇 )
The African colonies were still important for the empire; while they were a net loss in terms of state revenue, they made a lot of other people a lot of money. Cocoa, coffee, cotton and other cash crops like palm oil and rubber could be grown there on the cheap and sold with a huge mark-up across the Empire. The Euros really shot themselves in the foot through their great ignorance of traditional farming methods - the colonies could have easily produced far, far more had they actually bothered to consider why the natives wanted to do things differently.
 
But that's the point, Austria and its associated domains were very periopheral to Spanish interests and forced Spain to play a different game, so they were recognized as a liability and spun off; most other historical gains simply were a bit too much of expansion in a desirable direction, but their 'too much-ness' became only apparent after a while and often still helped protect other, more integral areas, from direct threat.

Associated domains were never in Charles's powers, Bohemia and remnant of Hungary were gained due to Ferdinand's marriage to sister of Louis II of Hungary, Anna.
 
The pre-division Roman Empire existed for centuries and was even bigger than Justinian's ERE, so I don't necessarily thing it was the case of "too big to succeed".
The SPQR was build during a climatic warm period when conditions were favorable for urban, agricultural state-societies. Hence these kinds of societies boomed during Classical Antiquity in Europe, becoming huge and incredibly dense. By the time of Justinian however, changes in the global climate caused a cycle of macro-economic decline, which led to the collapse of urban centers throughout western Europe. Economics of scale really disadvantaged big, expensive conquests and centralized states in this time and place.

Basically, through no fault of his own and through factors he could never have anticipated, many of Justinian's conquests ended up being a huge waste of time, money and manpower.
 
Is leaving the people in the areas you don't wish to spend and invest to effectively administer to their own devices, while maintaining the dejure claim over those regions towards outsiders, not an option?
 
First French Empire: Naples should have stayed with Joseph, they had no bussiness in the mess that was Spain at the time, Holland stayed with Louis, Italy would have gone to Eugene, Warsaw never to exist to appese the russians.
I personally agree with most of it. Keep France on the so-called natural borders, plus Piedmont and Liguria.
Warsaw doesn't feel like overextension to me, unlike the Illyrian Provinces, which should have been split between Italy and the Habsburg Empire. The portions of Hannover and Pomerania could've been handed to allied states.
 
The SPQR was build during a climatic warm period when conditions were favorable for urban, agricultural state-societies. Hence these kinds of societies boomed during Classical Antiquity in Europe, becoming huge and incredibly dense. By the time of Justinian however, changes in the global climate caused a cycle of macro-economic decline, which led to the collapse of urban centers throughout western Europe. Economics of scale really disadvantaged big, expensive conquests and centralized states in this time and place.

Basically, through no fault of his own and through factors he could never have anticipated, many of Justinian's conquests ended up being a huge waste of time, money and manpower.

Maybe but for example China went through that period as well and despite periodic fragmentation, it still exists as single state up until present day.
 
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