The Vikings decide to convert to Islam.

snassni2

Analytical Engine said:
They'd probably argue that "it only applies to alcohol derived from grapes. Wait, grapes don't grow that well up here? Ah well...", so they can keep drinking mead and beer.
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“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, idolatry, and divining arrows are an abomination of Satan’s handiwork. So avoid that so that you may be successful. Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?” (Verses 90 and 91of Surat Surat Al-Ma’idah).
versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com

Tafseer Surah al-Ma’idah Ayah 90

Prohibiting Khamr [Intoxicants] and Maysir [Gambling] Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala forbids His believing servants from consuming Khamr and Maysir [i.e. intoxicants and gambling]. Ibn Abi Hatim recorde…
versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com
 

Analytical Engine

snassni2 said:
“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, idolatry, and divining arrows are an abomination of Satan’s handiwork. So avoid that so that you may be successful. Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?” (Verses 90 and 91of Surat Surat Al-Ma’idah).
versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com

Tafseer Surah al-Ma’idah Ayah 90

Prohibiting Khamr [Intoxicants] and Maysir [Gambling] Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala forbids His believing servants from consuming Khamr and Maysir [i.e. intoxicants and gambling]. Ibn Abi Hatim recorde…
versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com
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Doesn't stop some Muslims from drinking alcohol.

Or more or less all Christians from violating the dietary laws listed in Leviticus multiple times a day... :p
 

Nivek

Guardonion said:
Well I, speaking as a Turkish person, can safely say that alcohol is not forbidden.
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Seems Assyrians and Indonesian are more strict muslim them. Still yeah that is hardly the worst sin but still one people should be better to avoid it.

Regardless some will be more pious than other
 

Jürgen

Analytical Engine said:
Doesn't stop some Muslims from drinking alcohol.

Or more or less all Christians from violating the dietary laws listed in Leviticus multiple times a day... :p
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The dietary laws are for Hebrews. Christian Hebrews should of course keep the dietary laws, but from a biblical literalist POV the only dietary law non-Hebrew Christians should follow is that we shouldn’t eat meat torn from a living animal.
 

Jürgen

In general I find the idea that the Norse would convert to Islam lacking a historical perspective of how and why the Norse converted to Christianity. It was foremost a top down process, but it only happened when there was a good political reason for doing so. The first Danish Christian king was Harald Klak, but he failed to convert the Danes and was driven out of Denmark and Denmark only converted 150 years later (and resulted in a in a successful pagan revolt, which meant that pagans could still openly practice their faith at least a century later). Fundamental the Norse conversion to Christianity was more political and practical than religious. A conversion to Islam have no good practical or political effect, and if some king tries to enforce the Islam on his subjects, he will end up losing power.
 

Analytical Engine

Jürgen said:
The dietary laws are for Hebrews. Christian Hebrews should of course keep the dietary laws, but from a biblical literalist POV the only dietary law non-Hebrew Christians should follow is that we shouldn’t eat meat torn from a living animal.
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Ah yes, the "we should get rid of/ignore anything that would be too inconvenient for us to not be able to convert the large number of non Hebrews to Christianity, such as all these Greek-speaking types" solution.
 

Jürgen

Analytical Engine said:
Ah yes, the "we should get rid of/ignore anything that would be too inconvenient for us to not be able to convert the large number of non Hebrews to Christianity, such as all these Greek-speaking types" solution.
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Seeing as the the Jews already had the Noahide Laws specificfor non-Hebrews, it seems weird to ignore those.
 
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Food-Oh_Koon

Food-Oh_Koon

snassni2 said:
“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, idolatry, and divining arrows are an abomination of Satan’s handiwork. So avoid that so that you may be successful. Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?” (Verses 90 and 91of Surat Surat Al-Ma’idah).
Click to expand...
O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. (5-90)

Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?(5=91)

quran.com

There is a mention of intoxicants but not exactly Alcohol.
 
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lerk

lerk

Food-Oh_Koon said:
O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. (5-90)

Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?(5=91)

quran.com

There is a mention of intoxicants but not exactly Alcohol.
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An exegesis of the Quran is linked by @snassni2 , explaining the verse. Only an extremely literal interpretation of the Quran (which is not mainstream at all) can you come out with the conclusion that alcohol is allowed.
 
Food-Oh_Koon

Food-Oh_Koon

lerk said:
An exegesis of the Quran is linked by @snassni2 , explaining the verse. Only an extremely literal interpretation of the Quran (which is not mainstream at all) can you come out with the conclusion that alcohol is allowed.
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That is what I'm counting on. I know that Koran does require you to interprete what the intoxicants are. I'm just saying Vikings may take that too literally for their sake of the argument.
 

Nivek

Food-Oh_Koon said:
That is what I'm counting on. I know that Koran does require you to interprete what the intoxicants are. I'm just saying Vikings may take that too literally for their sake of the argument.
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No berseker anymore too, those mushroom are intoxicating...
 
AudieonAHCom

AudieonAHCom

snassni2 said:
This pork and alcohol argument is given too much attention. It will not lead to the creation of a new branch of Islam that allows it. It didn't happen in other parts like north africa, the balkans or china why should it happen here. Maybe in the beginning people will be reluctent to leave their old drinking and eating habits, but with more contact to the muslim world they will change.
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No one is using it for the Branch idea.

The Nord culture that is
 
Talus I of Dixie

Talus I of Dixie

lerk said:
Only an extremely literal interpretation of the Quran (which is not mainstream at all) can you come out with the conclusion that alcohol is allowed.
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That's exactly what the Zahiri were about, as said before in this thread, according to Zahiri jurisprudence only wine (and any other drink made out of grapes) are forbidden.
 
History Learner

History Learner

Banned
Maxamillion96 said:
Let’s say that the Vikings get so offended by Charlemange converting the Saxons to Christianity that they decide the best to spit in his face and the Catholic Churches ( and keep their concubines) is to convert to Islam. Around this time, there was the (now extinct) Zahiri school, which the Vikings might have come across, that claimed that alcohol was only prohibited if it came from wine grapes.

let’s say that Vikings convert to it to keep their mead. How does the future of Europe change?
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Things like Alcohol and Pork are extremely over-stated; economics of trade, the prestige factor and the fact that most of their contact was with Christian entities with developed and robust religious structures are the real reason mass conversions happen. Otherwise, whenever a European King had a dispute with the Pope, why weren't they converting to Islam, or Tengri, or whatever.
 
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