The Ostend manifesto suceeds

[Straha]

In the mid 1850s a group of US diplomats came up with a proposal to attempt to threaten Spain into selling off cuba, and if Spain didn't cooperate take Cuba by force. This plan was naturally called the Ostend Manifesto( www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostend_Manifesto for more information on it). What would happen if their plan was able to go off and the US goes to war with spain and steals their carribean/pacific empire(Cuba, Santo Domingo, Canaries, Madieras, Phillipppines, Northeast New Guinea, Marianas, Marshalls, Carolines, Yap, Palau, Rabaul, North Solomons, Bismarks, Samoa and Guam)? How does this change america in the years from 1854-2006?

1 Where else does the US expand to besides the spanish empire?

2 What happens in a world where the US has more slave territories so it can keep the peace and avoid the civil war?

3 How is the US changed by having a colonial empire before WWI?

4 How screwed is Maxamillian in the 1860's since the US isn't distracted by a civil war and how much of mexico does the US manage to extract from Juarez as the "price' for the "liberation".

 

[Straha]

*bump*

I think this has potential

 

[Doeth]

The north may succede... Or they could buy a non-slave state... (canada?)

 

[Nicole]

The north may succede... Or they could buy a non-slave state... (canada?)

There is no way that Britain will sell Canada.

Anyway, wasn't the President at the time opposed to it and quashed it? If it did go through, I could imagine Britain interveneing on Spain's side- remember how opposed they were to the spread of slavery, plus they have big reasons to oppose the spread of the US in the Caribbean. (Jamaica)

Assuming the US got Cuba, I don't think that France would even try anything in Mexico- isn't the reason they even went down there was because the US was distracted?

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Cuba, Santo Domingo, Canaries, Madieras, Phillipppines, Northeast New Guinea, Marianas, Marshalls, Carolines, Yap, Palau, Rabaul, North Solomons, Bismarks, Samoa and Guam)

Santo Domingo - independent at the time of the POD, Spanish during the ACW

Madeira - Portuguese

Northeast New Guinea, North Solomons, Bismarcks, Samoa - not Spanish (Germany didn't buy them from Spain)

Rabaul - redundant (city in New Britain, the Bismarck Archipelago)

The difference between the US and Spain wasn't as great in the 1850s as in the 1890s. I can understand the US taking Cuba and maybe even the Spanish Pacific, but I would just love to see how they'd take the Philippines and the Canaries.

What happens in a world where the US has more slave territories so it can keep the peace and avoid the civil war?

Sorry, but for a second there I was under the impression that you expected the ACW to be avoided.

 

[Straha]

Yes. I see the civil war as being avoidable.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Yes. I see the civil war as being avoidable.

Either the North or the South will secede without some other POD. If you add Cuba as a slave state you just increase tension (remember Texas and the Mexican Annexation). Let's pretend you can actually get all of Spain's colonial empire and the slave states dominate the union. Immediate consequence: They try to do something that the North can't accept. Result: Independence for the Federated States of America (the North).

Here's the short way to put it: Slavery was the problem. You've made it worse. Whatever part of the US feels most threatened will secede.

 

[Timmy811]

There's no way the country would go to war over Cuba in the 1850s, the country would break down into an early civil war first. Now if Spain was willing to sell for the $100 million Pierce proposed that might have gotten through the congress. But it would have been tough.

 

[DuQuense]

Given a Spainish American War in the 1850's I doubt if the US would be that interested in the Pacific.

So the US ends up [provided they win] with Cuba and PR.

Whe also have a lot of Vetrans.

the Split is postponed till 1865, But the US has a even larger Industrial base, and a military with the Spainish war for lessons on using it's industry. If War a I see a shorter one.
But ?Wheither it goes to war depends on Political factors during those ten years.?

the European Countries went in to Mexico to get it to honor the Mexican Bonds it had repudiated. ?Would Mexico have done the same here? ?Would Europe react the same?

 

[DuQuense]

Course I could see a real interesting TL with the US LOSING the 1850's Spainish War.