The Future Kaiser

[Campbell1004]

Okay so the Central Powers win the Great War in, I don't know what sounds reasonable? 1916?

The point is the win and gain dominance over France, shaky peace with Great Britain and a weird quasi-friendship with Russia (due to German involvement in the Civil War). Germany is the big man in Europe.

So Kaiser Wilhelm II dies on June 4, 1941. His son, Kaiser Wilhelm III takes power. Or does he?

My first Question is: I keep reading something about a general pretty much being in control of Germany at the end of the war? What is this all about?

My second Question is: Based upon historical documents and info we scrounge out of the internet, would Wilhelm III (or William) have been a quality ruler?

 

[Grey Wolf]

Okay so the Central Powers win the Great War in, I don't know what sounds reasonable? 1916?

The point is the win and gain dominance over France, shaky peace with Great Britain and a weird quasi-friendship with Russia (due to German involvement in the Civil War). Germany is the big man in Europe.

So Kaiser Wilhelm II dies on June 4, 1941. His son, Kaiser Wilhelm III takes power. Or does he?

My first Question is: I keep reading something about a general pretty much being in control of Germany at the end of the war? What is this all about?

My second Question is: Based upon historical documents and info we scrounge out of the internet, would Wilhelm III (or William) have been a quality ruler?

Playboy crown princes often make better rulers than people expect - look at Edward VII for example

Sure, the Third Supreme Command WERE pretty much in charge of Germany by 1918 BUT this cannot last more than a year or two of peace, and during this time it would be eroded away in areas where their control is no longer vital.

Perhaps a better question is whether, not relieved of the stresses of ruling, Wilhelm II instead of recovering equilibrium and health in a Dutch exile, perhaps slips into insanity instead ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[altamiro]

My first Question is: I keep reading something about a general pretty much being in control of Germany at the end of the war? What is this all about?

Hindenburg and Ludendorff, the heads of General Staff, controlled pretty much all aspects of Germany by 1917, ostensibly because everything had to take second seat to winning the war, but in truth this became just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill military dictatorship of South American style, with a figurehead. Wilhelm II, who was a parade-loving buffoon but not a butcher comfortable with the trench warfare carnage, ineptly tried to stop the German war participation by 1915. He was then shunted aside by the generals, who allowed him to be the figurehead but not much else, because he interfered with their war plans.

I don't believe Hindenburg and/or Ludendorff would step aside readily after a won war, unless shifted aside themselves or seeing a promise of even more power somewhere else. Such people don't relinquish power readily.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Ludendorff's power rests solely on his association with Hindenburg. Hindenburg was already retired when WW1 began so I don't think he's going to be holding down the job for all that long. Those who actually won the war - Mackensen and others - are going to be counterweights, and have royal support. The Third Supreme Command will retain power in order to deal with the situation in the East, the stabilisation of satellites, the new economic arrangements and the ongoing conflict in Russia, but after a couple of years this power will be undermined from within. The political structure will reassert itself, industry won't be happy to live under state control when national survival is no longer at risk and so on. And don't forget the "Homes fit for heroes" (as in victorious UK of OTL) side of things - the people are going to want to see SOCIAL benefits to their hard-won victory and soon enough the SPD is going to be the majority party demanding the chancellorship.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[rast]

Wouldn't make too much out of the alleged dictatorship of III. OHL. Hindenburg and Ludendorff always declined to accept political responsibility, they were looking for a strong man who could direct German war effort in their sense.
A strong chancellor, however, was the one thing Wilhelm II. did not want. So, you have a sequence of relatively weak chancellors, which again led to intervention by III. OHL.
The whole system was very fragile and would have collapsed once de-mobilisation was due.

Anyway, a German victory in 1916 should still see Bethmann Hollweg as chancellor and Moltke (or Falkenhayn?) as Chief of Staff. So, the prerogative of the civilian side was still intact (was never questioned by either M. or F.).

 

[Riain]

I agree, the war didn't become really radicalised until 1917 so if it was won, or won on one front, by 1916 the Kaiser, Chancellor etc would all still be in place.

 

[chris N]

The way that things were Crown Prince Wilhelm would succeed his father in 1941 and Louis Frederick would become Crown Prince as his older brother had married outside the approved norms having married commoners. The late Kaiser had not approved of their marriages and they signed their rights away

 

[Lord Roem]

I'm not sure what the effects of continuing to rule Germany following the First World War would be on Wilhelm II, if we look at his cousins in Britain for example, such as George V, few of them made it much past 70 so with the stresses of ruling Germany, even in a more constitutional fashion, we could see Wilhelm III coming to power in the late 1920's rather than the early 1940's. Given the differences in personality between his father, we could see him being more willing to accept the need for constitutional reform of the Empire than his late father would have.

Regarding the issues of political reform, we have to remember that historians such as Fischer have always argued that WW1 came about as a means of detracting the German population from the issue of radicalism. Successive Chancellors always talked about the "Primacy of Domestic Politics" as a means of staving off call for reform. Whilst any Central Powers victory is going to be greeted with wide support from all sections of the electorate, it is not going to take long before the Social Democrats start talking about reform again. Therefore, it could well be that Wilhelm III, and maybe even Wilhelm II start talking about the need to increase suffrage and limit the power of the military to stave off the threat of a socialist uprising, either real or imagined.