The Forge of Weyland
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
"Panzernography: a pictorial history of Armoured Fighting Vehicle propaganda" compiled by A. Dragon et al.Hang on... you mean there's a Turtledove Tank Porn category now?
Made famous for its shameless cover art, featuring a barely clad woman with welding gear, putting the finishing touches on a tank turret (itself a well-known piece of wartime art from the US Army Archives), the actual content of the book concerned the use of tanks and other armoured vehicles as propaganda pieces, both in artwork, photo, and film.
It was infact the lewdest image captured during the war, a Sherman mid transformation into a Firefly. Experts claim that it was the first example of fan service ever caught on camera.
Of course everyone who bought it claims they did so for the text but can never remember any of it. They can however describe every illustration.
Is the increase in welding likely to result in earlier introduction of Mig welding which came about in the late 40's. my understanding is that mig is easier to teach than arc. if so that would possibly simplify production. Also will the increased use of welding filter across to things like artillery, there is a 25lber gun at Arnhem and the carriage is more rivet than steel. Also British truck building in the 50's still relied on riveting if my Bedford RL is anything to go by.
MiG welding was only invented to weld aluminium and other specialist metals. It is not really practical until you get a cheap supply of inert gas, which only comes about post-war as a side effect of Basic Oxygen Steelmaking (you need shed loads of Oxygen for that, when you do the distillation to produce the pure oxygen you can get the inert gases as side effect). At this point it is arc welding or oxyacetylene welding.
That said welding is not that hard to teach. There is an example that Plymouth dockyards got a draft of 150 men with zero experience, 2 had to be rejected, 40% were very good at it and put on new construction and the tricky bits, the other 60% were put on repairs and routine work (which was 75% of what the dockyard did). And bear in mind this was after a few weeks of rushed training only. Factory arc welding was apparently even easier, wartime factory girls were lucky to get a few days training before being thrown onto the line and they did fine by all accounts.
The limits on welding are tooling, factory layout, the design of the item itself, that sort of thing. Training welders was never the bottleneck.
Welding is going to spread, but at first it will be concentrated on tanks, who get the most benefits.
Then onto things like carriers and guns.
Now they have established it, all the new production will be geared up for it. The exception is some of the heavy engineering firms drafted in.
In TTL, more are making components, to pass through to the bigger tank plants, they may well help with cast tanks as well.
Then onto things like carriers and guns.
Now they have established it, all the new production will be geared up for it. The exception is some of the heavy engineering firms drafted in.
In TTL, more are making components, to pass through to the bigger tank plants, they may well help with cast tanks as well.
If not, then there really should be - right next to the Turtledove Battleship Porn categoryHang on... you mean there's a Turtledove Tank Porn category now?
The French Armament .pdf is particularly enlightening especially on the snippets of AAR not normally seen.
Jan 1940 (2)
18th January 1940
The first of six pre-production SOMUA S-40 tanks arrive at the French 507th Tank Regiment for testing in the field. The first production vehicles should be arriving in March, but a final test in an active unit will hopefully show up any problems still remaining.
19th January 1940
The British 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division arrives at Cherbourg under the command of Major-General Martel. It will be attached to II Corps, brining the forward strength of the BEF up to 6 divisions in two Corps. When the next division arrives it is expected to form a third Corps.
20th January 1940 - MEE Farnborough
A team from Vickers had arrived with a prototype model of what they were calling a heavy cruiser. This had been developed after discussions last summer about possible upgrades or follow-on designs to their current tanks.
The tank itself looked fairly similar to the A11 Cutlass. This wasn't surprising, the hull was basically the same, but about a foot longer to allow more room for a bigger engine. The armour was a little thicker; it had been increased to 75mm on the front, equalling the A12 Matilda, and Vickers thought it would give slightly better protection than the cast armour on the Matilda.
The most obvious external difference was the suspension. Vickers had used a version of the VVSS Horstman first seen on the A13 tank, which they claimed would give a smoother, faster ride. The bigger differences were internal. The large diesel originally proposed for the A11 had been brought back, with a few changes to make it simpler and easier to produce. It gave 480hp, and this was driven through the new Merritt-Brown triple differential system. This was a modification to the double differential, replacing the steering clutches with a single braked differential similar to a controlled differential. This third differential allows any desired output speed in the steering shaft, compared to the double differential where the speed of the shaft is fixed. This allows continuously variable steering. This had just finished development at David Brown Ltd, and this would be its first use in a tank.
The combination of larger engine and new transmission was expected to propel the tank at 30mph on the road, and over 20mph on rough ground, in fact they were looking for slightly better speed than the much lighter A10 Sabre, and with the upgraded suspension hoped it would allow faster movement off road without bouncing the crew around too much.
The 60" turret ring and basic turret layout was the same as the earlier tanks, with a sample HV^pdr fitted. This had been done to reduce the need for manufacturing changes, a larger turret ring would have meant a longer hiatus, at a time when more tanks were badly needed. Vickers had ideas about that, but were keeping them for a new tank they were hoping to produce a specification for in the summer.
The Army had been reluctant to progress this design at full speed in case a new tank would disrupt production, but Vickers had pointed out that if introduced in the Autumn, it would fit in with some of the new production lines becoming available, so causing minimal disruption. Even if the Army didn't want the fast version with the larger engine, they wanted to use the improved suspension and transmission in a new mark of the Cutlass. If that was done, they would keep the current armour so not to reduce speed. The MEE was to give the tank a comprehensive test, in particular looking at the new components, before a decision would be made on production.
A new plant would have to be built for the engine. Vickers had mentioned that even if the Army didn't want it, there was a use for the engine in the Navy; they needed an engine of this size for some of their smaller craft. In any case, at some point a bigger tank engine would be needed, so maybe the initial production could go to the Navy until that time. The Army decided to wait until the trials were done, but a joint production for the Navy would make it more acceptable, as long as the navy didn't demand too many of the engines.
28th January 1940
The recently-arrived 51st(Highland) Division comes under the command of 1Corps. This is a temporary arrangement; the division will for the time being be the HQ reserve division. The division is unhappy that the Army has decided that kilts are not suitable for modern mechanised warfare, or to face gas attacks.
With the arrival of another TA division, some units are moved around between the divisions. This idea is to strengthen the new TA divisions with some regular units, replacing them in the regular divisions with TA men.
1st February 1940
An advance party from the new 1st Tank Brigade arrives. It will join the 1st Armoured Division to get familiarised with the ground and working with the French. The Brigade itself is currently fitting out and training with a mix of the A11 Cutlass and the new A12 Matilda tank, and will be part of GHQ, available to be assigned to support an infantry division as needed.
The first of six pre-production SOMUA S-40 tanks arrive at the French 507th Tank Regiment for testing in the field. The first production vehicles should be arriving in March, but a final test in an active unit will hopefully show up any problems still remaining.
19th January 1940
The British 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division arrives at Cherbourg under the command of Major-General Martel. It will be attached to II Corps, brining the forward strength of the BEF up to 6 divisions in two Corps. When the next division arrives it is expected to form a third Corps.
20th January 1940 - MEE Farnborough
A team from Vickers had arrived with a prototype model of what they were calling a heavy cruiser. This had been developed after discussions last summer about possible upgrades or follow-on designs to their current tanks.
The tank itself looked fairly similar to the A11 Cutlass. This wasn't surprising, the hull was basically the same, but about a foot longer to allow more room for a bigger engine. The armour was a little thicker; it had been increased to 75mm on the front, equalling the A12 Matilda, and Vickers thought it would give slightly better protection than the cast armour on the Matilda.
The most obvious external difference was the suspension. Vickers had used a version of the VVSS Horstman first seen on the A13 tank, which they claimed would give a smoother, faster ride. The bigger differences were internal. The large diesel originally proposed for the A11 had been brought back, with a few changes to make it simpler and easier to produce. It gave 480hp, and this was driven through the new Merritt-Brown triple differential system. This was a modification to the double differential, replacing the steering clutches with a single braked differential similar to a controlled differential. This third differential allows any desired output speed in the steering shaft, compared to the double differential where the speed of the shaft is fixed. This allows continuously variable steering. This had just finished development at David Brown Ltd, and this would be its first use in a tank.
The combination of larger engine and new transmission was expected to propel the tank at 30mph on the road, and over 20mph on rough ground, in fact they were looking for slightly better speed than the much lighter A10 Sabre, and with the upgraded suspension hoped it would allow faster movement off road without bouncing the crew around too much.
The 60" turret ring and basic turret layout was the same as the earlier tanks, with a sample HV^pdr fitted. This had been done to reduce the need for manufacturing changes, a larger turret ring would have meant a longer hiatus, at a time when more tanks were badly needed. Vickers had ideas about that, but were keeping them for a new tank they were hoping to produce a specification for in the summer.
The Army had been reluctant to progress this design at full speed in case a new tank would disrupt production, but Vickers had pointed out that if introduced in the Autumn, it would fit in with some of the new production lines becoming available, so causing minimal disruption. Even if the Army didn't want the fast version with the larger engine, they wanted to use the improved suspension and transmission in a new mark of the Cutlass. If that was done, they would keep the current armour so not to reduce speed. The MEE was to give the tank a comprehensive test, in particular looking at the new components, before a decision would be made on production.
A new plant would have to be built for the engine. Vickers had mentioned that even if the Army didn't want it, there was a use for the engine in the Navy; they needed an engine of this size for some of their smaller craft. In any case, at some point a bigger tank engine would be needed, so maybe the initial production could go to the Navy until that time. The Army decided to wait until the trials were done, but a joint production for the Navy would make it more acceptable, as long as the navy didn't demand too many of the engines.
28th January 1940
The recently-arrived 51st(Highland) Division comes under the command of 1Corps. This is a temporary arrangement; the division will for the time being be the HQ reserve division. The division is unhappy that the Army has decided that kilts are not suitable for modern mechanised warfare, or to face gas attacks.
With the arrival of another TA division, some units are moved around between the divisions. This idea is to strengthen the new TA divisions with some regular units, replacing them in the regular divisions with TA men.
1st February 1940
An advance party from the new 1st Tank Brigade arrives. It will join the 1st Armoured Division to get familiarised with the ground and working with the French. The Brigade itself is currently fitting out and training with a mix of the A11 Cutlass and the new A12 Matilda tank, and will be part of GHQ, available to be assigned to support an infantry division as needed.
I'm going to give an update on the joint reserve force and its training soon.
I asked this earlier, but isn't a Horstman suspension horizontal? Would this then not be HVSS (Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension) rather than a VVSS (Vertical Volute Spring Suspension)?
OTL the French didn't think they where short on AT guns. They even lent some Hotchkiss 25mm to the BEF who had a cute shortage of AT guns. ITTL with the British Tanks usuing 3 pounders there should be more British 2 pounders with the infantry and 3 pounders with the RA. This should mean that the French should have the abitlity to increase the allotment of AT guns for second line formations (which was the real issues OTL). Also as Churchill (I think) pointed out they had plenty of 75's which while old would still make a real mess of a Panzer 1. An 75 around every corner would have slowed down the Panzers if the French had had the will to use them. Sadly OTL the Panzers moved to fast and the French response was too slow.
ITTL things look to be very different. The main difference is that there is now a concentrated mobile reserve with some hard hitting units who when the attack comes should be fully trained and integrated. The Germans would have to blind, deaf and stupid to miss 7th Army lurking behind the French Northern Army Group. How does this effect the Sickle Cut? The Germans have got to assume that once the main thrust is identified then 7 th Army is going to start moving towards the schwerpunct. It is only a matter of where this occurs. If the Allies move quickly (and do the Germans really know how slow the French would be OTL?) could they reach Sedan before the Panzers? Or if slower could they move into a blocking position forcing a major engagement. Or finally if the thrust does reach the same then the French have a significant powerful and mobile force to attack the flanks of the Panzer thrust. All these possibilities are going to cause some sleepless nights at OKH. Perhaps enough to go for more limited objectives or to revisit the original plan and make the main attach through Belgium and Holland.
The TTL 7 th Army also has significant effects on the French. OTL once the line was broken at Sedan there was no concentrated powerful reserve. The French high command which was always behind the German decision curve anyway could not impose themselves on the battle at all and this was quickly realised hence all the tears when they found out about Sedan. ITTL Things are going to be a lot calmer. They know they have a mobile reserve and will calmly start moving this towards the enemy break through. This calmness will have some effect on lower level commanders and the Polis. A little less panic could go a long way in this senario. Perhaps enough to save France?
Having the 7th Army might also have some effect on the British. When OTL Churchill asked in his best school boy French "where is the reserve" (I didn't do french at school and don't have time to dig out the correct phrase because I'm well lazy), the French say the 7th Army is moving to attack. Followed by please can we have some more fighter squadrons! In this senario the battle doesn't look lost at this stage and I think Churchill would be inclined to disregard Downing and send more squadrons to France.
Of course it's Astros story I look forward to seeing how he sees it playing out.