The evolution of the Russian empire.

So, I was wondering about how the Russian empire would evolve assuming it had survived. Here some things I can bring to the table.

So, basically by 1914 in theory is a constitutional monarchy with an active monarch like the German empire, but due the 1907 Duma coup it is in fact a royal dictatorship. I do not think that this could be kept after Nicholas II since basically there were no more strong Romanov figures left, so assuming Alexei didn't die and got crowned he would be an weak and I'll Tsar and assuming he died then Michael (Nicholas II brother) would be crowned and basically Russia would by one way or another cement itself as a true constitutional monarchy with an active Tsar.

Do you agree with that?
 
Probably. In other hand if there is not WW1, some kind of revolution would occur in 1920's or early 1930's due declining economy, lack of political reforms and several societal troubles. Nicholas II would be enforced to abdicate or monarchy would be abolished. Nicky wasn't ever going to accept being just figuerehead.

Later Russia would evolve as semi-parliamentary monarchy where Duma has lot of power but tsar has too some actual power altough far from Nicholas II's powers.

Such development would be much better for Russia. The country would be more democratic and more prosperous. It would has too higher population.
 
Probably. In other hand if there is not WW1, some kind of revolution would occur in 1920's or early 1930's due declining economy, lack of political reforms and several societal troubles. Nicholas II would be enforced to abdicate or monarchy would be abolished. Nicky wasn't ever going to accept being just figuerehead.

Later Russia would evolve as semi-parliamentary monarchy where Duma has lot of power but tsar has too some actual power altough far from Nicholas II's powers.

Such development would be much better for Russia. The country would be more democratic and more prosperous. It would has too higher population.
I think the best for the monarchy would be if Nicholas die before such thing and this allows either Alexei o Michael to do those reforms in their own therms.
 
I think the best for the monarchy would be if Nicholas die before such thing and this allows either Alexei o Michael to do those reforms in their own therms.

Assassination of course would be possible before any revolution occurs.

Or then avoid him ever getting throne or create strong parliament before Nicholas' ascension.
 
The Russian Empire is more like Austria-Hungary than it is Germany, or another power.

Too multi-national to work as a democracy, it is an Empire, in which an ideology of Russian Imperialism is permeated at all levels of Russian politics. As non-Russian groups demand things like rights and autonomy, and fail to receive them, things will eventually deteriorate further and further until the whole thing goes apart. Not even in the 1990s did the Socialist Revolutionaries in-exile want to see the breakup of the Soviet Union. None of the more conservative groups can accept autonomy for non-Russian groups, and won't accept it for the Poles if there is no WWI, or the war goes well enough.
 
Assassination of course would be possible before any revolution occurs.

Or then avoid him ever getting throne or create strong parliament before Nicholas' ascension.
How much royal power can be kept? Also, do you think that some form of neo absolutism could rise in the future?

until the whole thing goes apart
The empire ain't going to blow up unless there is some foreign invasion. The soviet union blowing up was one chance in a million and in most scenarios it would end surviving for an undetermined amont of time.
 
How much royal power can be kept? Also, do you think that some form of neo absolutism could rise in the future?


The empire ain't going to blow up unless there is some foreign invasion. The soviet union blowing up was one chance in a million and in most scenarios it would end surviving for an undetermined amont of time.

Yeah, the Russian Empire provinces did not take account ofethnic boundaries and it would be much eaaier to control regionalism in Russia this way. The Soviet republics were split along ethnic lines and Soviet propaganda prided it as "a union of brotherly people", so the seeds for a nationalist break-up were already planted. Also, one of the most overlooked facts is that the Soviet republics had the express right to secede enshrined in every Soviet Constitution (unlike US states), so their eventual secession was done on very legal terms.

The Russian Empire is more like Austria-Hungary than it is Germany, or another power.

Too multi-national to work as a democracy, it is an Empire, in which an ideology of Russian Imperialism is permeated at all levels of Russian politics. As non-Russian groups demand things like rights and autonomy, and fail to receive them, things will eventually deteriorate further and further until the whole thing goes apart. Not even in the 1990s did the Socialist Revolutionaries in-exile want to see the breakup of the Soviet Union. None of the more conservative groups can accept autonomy for non-Russian groups, and won't accept it for the Poles if there is no WWI, or the war goes well enough.

Austrians were 23% of the population of Austria-Hungary, while Russians were 44% inside the Russian Empire(not to mention the soft power instrument of the Russian Orthodox Church, controlling 87% of the population), not to mention the population being extremely spread out in Eastern Europe and monopolizing Siberia, so if reformed properly the Russian Empire would be able to survive.
 
I feel like Russia before communist Revolution gets too much flack. Even a worst case scenario Russian empire ruling Russia through the 20th century, is still leagues better than the Bolsheviks.
 
How much royal power can be kept? Also, do you think that some form of neo absolutism could rise in the future?


The empire ain't going to blow up unless there is some foreign invasion. The soviet union blowing up was one chance in a million and in most scenarios it would end surviving for an undetermined amont of time.
And by what metric have you made that determination? Because the Soviet Union is 0:1 vs Collapse lmao

The Empire almost did blow up in 1905, and after the end of that experiment the Empire was almost certainly doomed. As WWI demonstrated the institution of the Tsardom itself was rotten, sure it took a couple years for things to finally boil over where resentment from all sides pushed out 1917. In any case, the Empire's prospects are limited, the way its elite understood itself "one and indivisible" precludes true democratic development because Russians were a minority in the Empire. Demographics probably wouldn't improve that.

Of course, even if WWI as we know it doesn't happen, you're not getting through the first half of the 20th century without a couple more shocks to the system, be they an equivalent of 1929 or a war with a foreign power, Germany, Turkey, Japan, Britain, whatever. The point is, the makeup of the empire, and its institutions, hardly favors the developments of the 20th century. Sure, we can probably formulate a way in which a regime takes place that is more liberal, but fundamentally you either are an Empire or you aren't an Empire, and when this Empire isn't an overseas farflung series of colonial outposts but a contiguous landmass from an elevated core to an imperial periphery, you can't turn that into a democracy. That's not even touching on the economic situation.
Yeah, the Russian Empire provinces did not take account ofethnic boundaries and it would be much eaaier to control regionalism in Russia this way. The Soviet republics were split along ethnic lines and Soviet propaganda prided it as "a union of brotherly people", so the seeds for a nationalist break-up were already planted. Also, one of the most overlooked facts is that the Soviet republics had the express right to secede enshrined in every Soviet Constitution (unlike US states), so their eventual secession was done on very legal terms.



Austrians were 23% of the population of Austria-Hungary, while Russians were 44% inside the Russian Empire(not to mention the soft power instrument of the Russian Orthodox Church, controlling 87% of the population), not to mention the population being extremely spread out in Eastern Europe and monopolizing Siberia, so if reformed properly the Russian Empire would be able to survive.

What was the percentage of Catholics in Austria-Hungary? The hierarchy there was strongly enough behind the monarchy there was talk of breaking with Rome because they didn't want an Italian pope before 1915. Religion was not as effective a tool of state policy in 20th century, true in Eastern Europe as it was in Western Europe.

The point is that the Russian Empire was an Empire, it governed core->periphery, and had at various levels a massively disparate ethnic, confessional, and socio-economic hierarchy. To transition it into something we'd call a democracy in a sustainable way (as it is Russia, in its history has had one arguably fair election in 1905 and that's it) seems, to me, unlikely. Germany's situation was very different, as a point of comparison, and its monarchy's transition to constitutionalism was only ever incomplete.

I feel like Russia before communist Revolution gets too much flack. Even a worst case scenario Russian empire ruling Russia through the 20th century, is still leagues better than the Bolsheviks.

Ask the Circassians.

Secondly, this is not a contest.
 
Yeah, the Russian Empire provinces did not take account ofethnic boundaries and it would be much eaaier to control regionalism in Russia this way. The Soviet republics were split along ethnic lines and Soviet propaganda prided it as "a union of brotherly people", so the seeds for a nationalist break-up were already planted. Also, one of the most overlooked facts is that the Soviet republics had the express right to secede enshrined in every Soviet Constitution (unlike US states), so their eventual secession was done on very legal terms.
Yeah plus they were flooding those areas with ethnic russians making the whole thing a clustertruck.

Austrians were 23% of the population of Austria-Hungary, while Russians were 44% inside the Russian Empire(not to mention the soft power instrument of the Russian Orthodox Church, controlling 87% of the population), not to mention the population being extremely spread out in Eastern Europe and monopolizing Siberia, so if reformed properly the Russian Empire would be able to survive.
And the russian birthrate wouldn't collapse so hard in this timeline and it is going to stay higher longer since sadly they are less permissive with women's rights.

And by what metric have you made that determination? Because the Soviet Union is 0:1 vs Collapse lmao
It did blow up in OTL since you had a combination of a anti soviet leader that was Gorbachov and everything that could go wrong went wrong and still people were against it dissolution and only ended since they didn't let the people decide to keep or dissolve it.

The Empire almost did blow up in 1905
The empire territorial integrity wasn't at danger in 1905, just the political system.

Ask the Circassians.

Secondly, this is not a contest.
Yeah, just like the soviets had the ethnical campaigns. But yeah it ain't a contest, let's not derrail this, brothers.
 
Yeah, just like the soviets had the ethnical campaigns. But yeah it ain't a contest, let's not derrail this, brothers.
My bad, wasn’t trying to start a pissing contest, just was trying to say that that a Russian monarchy I don’t think would have been as bad as some people think to lead Russia through the 20th century.
 
Top