Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

Hm, would the Soviets allow the Western Allies to have land in Poland, in exchange for land in Germany (assuming the Western Allies bagged most or all of Germany before the Soviets could get to it)?
 
Hm, would the Soviets allow the Western Allies to have land in Poland, in exchange for land in Germany (assuming the Western Allies bagged most or all of Germany before the Soviets could get to it)?
No, Stalin wants a large buffer zone between the West and the Soviet Union. He also wants everywhere the Tsars held back.
 
Hm, would the Soviets allow the Western Allies to have land in Poland, in exchange for land in Germany (assuming the Western Allies bagged most or all of Germany before the Soviets could get to it)?
Depends on what Joe wants

And he really wants to punish Hitler as well as former Russian territories.
 
Well if Stalin isn't willing to compromise on territory, he can probably kiss any chance of nabbing German territory outside of Berlin and former East Prussia goodbye.
 
...The failure of both the British and Americans to realise that trying to bomb industry wasn’t going to be as effective as bombing transport assets...
Weren't the Germans forced to disperse their industry by the early industry bombing attempts, which made transport all the more crucial? I.E. the German reaction to the industry bombing attempt set up the level of havoc that transportation attacks could later achieve?
(Although the switch to transport targetting was maybe slower than it could and perhaps should have been...)
 
It's an interesting comparison. A 1943 landing gives them less time to work out all the bugs, but OTOH, the Germans will have had far less time to reinforce too. Earlier on, neither the V-1 nor V-2 will be in play, and nor will the Germans have significant numbers of Panthers or Tigers (Tiger I production started in August 1942, Panther production started in January 1943, and Tiger II production started in mid 1944). Running Panzer IVs against Victors will be an interesting fight.
 
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It’s not just Iosef. The mass of the Soviet party never wants Russia invaded from the west by genocidal capitalism ever again. The mass of the Soviet party wants Great Russian chauvanism. The mass of the party will at the end of the day kill Stalin if he disagrees with them.

Stalin is an agreeable kind of chap for the general line of the people who could have him killed. Stalin know the answer to “Koba why must I die?” And never wants to have to ask it.
 
In this timeline, especially if invading Europe on 1943, are the Allies not in a position to dictate terms to Stalin re: Poland? In both OTL and TTL both Britain and France went to war for Poland. This certainly seems like the UK has far more cards to play to protect its ally.
 
In this timeline, especially if invading Europe on 1943, are the Allies not in a position to dictate terms to Stalin re: Poland? In both OTL and TTL both Britain and France went to war for Poland. This certainly seems like the UK has far more cards to play to protect its ally.
As far as I can see the only thing which can really make any impact regarding determining what happens to post-WW2 Poland is who has boots on the ground there when Germany surrenders.
And Poland is the wrong side of Germany for the UK to have any boots on the ground there when the Germans stop fighting, unless the UK has troops fighting alongside the Russians (maybe due to Churchill or someone else putting troops in Russia in 1941 when Stalin is desperate enough to be screaming for help, up to and including UK divisions in Russia.)
Other than that a nominally independent Soviet-controlled Polish puppet government (as opposed to outright annexation) is about all the Western Powers can hope for.
 
Tie continued Lend-Lease deliveries to an independent unoccupied Poland? In exchange the USSR does get prewar Memel? After the betrayal of Molotov-Ribbentrop, the USSR should've gained absolutely nothing.
 
Tie continued Lend-Lease deliveries to an independent unoccupied Poland? In exchange the USSR does get prewar Memel? After the betrayal of Molotov-Ribbentrop, the USSR should've gained absolutely nothing.
Look a bit harder about just what is being sent over for Lend-Lease, in light of stymieing such a rapid Soviet advance maybe?
 
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Look a bit harder about just what is being sent over for Lend-Lease, in light of stymieing such a rapid Soviet advance maybe?
Except a lot of lend-lease is coming from the USA, remember, and Roosevelt is more than happy to ship stuff to the Russians to get the fighting over and done with in Europe at the cost of as little American blood as possible, as soon as possible, so that he can then deal with Imperial Japan.
 
Except a lot of lend-lease is coming from the USA, remember, and Roosevelt is more than happy to ship stuff to the Russians to get the fighting over and done with in Europe at the cost of as little American blood as possible, as soon as possible, so that he can then deal with Imperial Japan.
As little American blood as possible? Probably best to let the USAAF top brass know about that!
 
As little American blood as possible? Probably best to let the USAAF top brass know about that!
Even though the casualties to the 8th Air Force and Bomber Command were very heavy as a percentage of aircrew....

They were much smaller numerically would have been the case for a prolonged land campaign against stronger German land and air forces.

IMHO anyway.
 
I really don't see them beating the soviets to Warsaw

It isn't strictly speaking impossible, but the most likely method for it to occur is for the Germans to still be holding or at least breaking slowly in the East due to sending more resources while their forces are surrendering in the West.

Then Germany as a whole surrenders to Britain and/or America but not the Soviets, allowing those two to liberate the territories in their rear before surrendering themselves.

It isn't likely, but it is theoretically possible.

The other side of that, fighting through Germany to reach Poland just isn't happening. Even if you could have the troops and the will to accept the casualties, the Germans would completely collapse in the East by the time you reached Berlin simply from them no longer getting any supplies as the places producing them are no longer under German control.
 
Even though the casualties to the 8th Air Force and Bomber Command were very heavy as a percentage of aircrew....

They were much smaller numerically would have been the case for a prolonged land campaign against stronger German land and air forces.

IMHO anyway.
Except that the losses in the early stages went in Germany's favour.

It isn't strictly speaking impossible, but the most likely method for it to occur is for the Germans to still be holding or at least breaking slowly in the East due to sending more resources while their forces are surrendering in the West.

Then Germany as a whole surrenders to Britain and/or America but not the Soviets, allowing those two to liberate the territories in their rear before surrendering themselves.

It isn't likely, but it is theoretically possible.

The other side of that, fighting through Germany to reach Poland just isn't happening. Even if you could have the troops and the will to accept the casualties, the Germans would completely collapse in the East by the time you reached Berlin simply from them no longer getting any supplies as the places producing them are no longer under German control.
That's a fair point.
 
Learning curve. Also irrelevant as the comparison is to the losses that would be sustained in a premature invasion and ground campaign.
Except that there wouldn't be that much more death, because the Allies were actually really good at bombing within the limited range of their fighter escorts. It was the unescorted raids over Germany itself which caused most of the blood.
 
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