Seven Days to the River Rhine: the Third World War - a TL

November 11, 2023 was the 40th anniversary of the conclusion of Able Archer. Here ITTL, it'll be remembered as the day the world ended.

Or ratherly the day when old civilisation ended. World is still existing.

And probably people have not any good saying about Reagan nor these Kremlin idiots who just escalated things more and more. Just wondering how Europe and North America are now. Australia, Brazil and Japan are probably big players now. USA is basically mid-level player and not sure if anyone really trust to USA taking that it allowed this all to happen.
 
Or ratherly the day when old civilisation ended. World is still existing.

And probably people have not any good saying about Reagan nor these Kremlin idiots who just escalated things more and more. Just wondering how Europe and North America are now. Australia, Brazil and Japan are probably big players now. USA is basically mid-level player and not sure if anyone really trust to USA taking that it allowed this all to happen.
The Southern Hemisphere is doing better, just like in 1983: Doomsday. Japan surprisingly recovered well despite being hammered by Soviet nuclear weapons. I think it helps that the majority of the JMSDF and the remnants of the U.S. 7th Fleet were dispersed at sea at the start of the tensions. It ensured these ships would survive while their bases in Yokosuka, Sasebo, Maizuru, and Kure were hit. Post-war, the Japan has the most powerful navy in East Asia.
 
Might be slight necro, but just read through the timeline and wow it looks very good! With TTL’s internet being 1990s-level I wonder if something like Wikipedia still came to exist (because I’m itching now to make a wiki box of TTL’s WW3 and maybe a fake screencap of a WW4 thing lol)
 
Would Israel actually let Iraq get away with having nuclear weapons? They'd nuke them first before that happens.
I'm amazed Uday was given the post. Knowing this monster is known to crash official functions of the embassies of other countries and pickup women there. Even Saddam was appalled by his son's behavior. An evil dictator as Saddam was, at least he has standards.
TBF Saddam did a lousy job in holding Qusay accountable. His son found ways to get back to his old ways due to his dad's inefficient punishments.
 
Might be slight necro, but just read through the timeline and wow it looks very good! With TTL’s internet being 1990s-level I wonder if something like Wikipedia still came to exist (because I’m itching now to make a wiki box of TTL’s WW3 and maybe a fake screencap of a WW4 thing lol)

Even whole Internet would be completely different. So even if some Wikipedia equal site is existing it is proably pretty different from OTL.
 
Might be slight necro, but just read through the timeline and wow it looks very good! With TTL’s internet being 1990s-level I wonder if something like Wikipedia still came to exist (because I’m itching now to make a wiki box of TTL’s WW3 and maybe a fake screencap of a WW4 thing lol)
Wikipedia's founder may have died or pursued a different field. I still believe a similar equivalent would come up.
 
Wikipedia's founder may have died or pursued a different field. I still believe a similar equivalent would come up.

Depends whether founders were near of targets during the war or not. At least they probably weren't drafted yet at this point. But it is pretty likely they never meet each others.

But yes, almost certainly there would be something similar.
 
The Southern Hemisphere is doing better, just like in 1983: Doomsday. Japan surprisingly recovered well despite being hammered by Soviet nuclear weapons. I think it helps that the majority of the JMSDF and the remnants of the U.S. 7th Fleet were dispersed at sea at the start of the tensions. It ensured these ships would survive while their bases in Yokosuka, Sasebo, Maizuru, and Kure were hit. Post-war, the Japan has the most powerful navy in East Asia.
Didn't japan loose 3/4 of its population within the first few years after the war?
 
Didn't japan loose 3/4 of its population within the first few years after the war?
Japan would be the hardest hit, it has little resources on the home islands, the population loss would be crippling (along with every other country)

Japan gains its power through its manufacturing and financial sectors, food is commonly shipped in, same with resources for manufacturing. Nuclear war basically shuts down trade between countries, even if Japan recovered there is not enough resources to "bounce back" without exerting control over overseas territory. The smaller territory of the home islands means more radioactive areas, and considering the usable land is a fraction of the total land, most of Japan would be uninhabitable

I doubt the remnants of the 7th Fleet would stick around, they would return to the US mainland or head to Australia depending on what the orders from the US Government, they would not be willing to be used as a "big stick" to scare other countries
 
Japan would be the hardest hit, it has little resources on the home islands, the population loss would be crippling (along with every other country)

Japan gains its power through its manufacturing and financial sectors, food is commonly shipped in, same with resources for manufacturing. Nuclear war basically shuts down trade between countries, even if Japan recovered there is not enough resources to "bounce back" without exerting control over overseas territory. The smaller territory of the home islands means more radioactive areas, and considering the usable land is a fraction of the total land, most of Japan would be uninhabitable

I doubt the remnants of the 7th Fleet would stick around, they would return to the US mainland or head to Australia depending on what the orders from the US Government, they would not be willing to be used as a "big stick" to scare other countries
Moreover

To say any country would "recover well" is academic, most countries as a whole would be shattered into city states, any remnant of the Government would have to make themselves legitement, through territory or conquest
I.e. the US government would likely only control a small portion of the Continental US, most territory would be split between independant states (New California Republic from fallout as an example). Overseas American Assets would try at best to return to the US to help with recovery and all that fun stuff, troops and equipment will be returned to the US (if available)
Just imagine the USS Nimitz powering a city, thats likely what most of the pre war navy is going to be used for

With the war, infrustructure and logistics are gone, 70 percent of people in 83 would not know how to gather food (hunting and such), with nearly 90 percent of the global population destroyed survivors will have to basically start at the stone age with the help of pre war tech. To get anywhere near 83 technology will take a long ass time

The Southern hemisphere will be hit less then the north, but technology will be devestated by the EMP effects, and given the IRL poorer state of the Southern hemisphere (besides certain countries like Australia) they will take decades to recover to just a pre war state, to say it will be unscathed is silly, as global trade would cause alot of issues when surviving technology breaks down and needs spare parts built in the US or other NUKED countries
I.e. Wikipedia wouldn't exist because any surviving technolgy like the internet would be for government and military use only, plus the brain drain of scientists dying and moving to other occupations (surviving) would cause alot of the "existing knowledge" to be gone. technological progress would grind to a halt

World War Z goes into this better then me

The biggest issue would be the global satellite network being hit hard by EMP effects, global communications would be back to radio and relays, the South has no experience building rockets (in 83 only launcher was black arrow, built in UK), likely it would take beyond 2050 to launch a satellite


Also to, this Timelines Democrats leaning more left with no republicans is a fallacy and takes IRL changes without modifying them for a nuclear war, the Democrats would be hardline leaders, any semblance of OTL US politics would be none-existant
not to mention having an election would be a pain in the ass, its likely the presidents will have lifetime limites for the near future
 
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A lore question, but how much of Kentucky, Michigan, and Oregon respectively survived the ordeal that was 1983? What cities were hit, and what allowed those three states to survive in a better position than literally every state that wasn't Oklahoma?
 
A lore question, but how much of Kentucky, Michigan, and Oregon respectively survived the ordeal that was 1983? What cities were hit, and what allowed those three states to survive in a better position than literally every state that wasn't Oklahoma?
Using the US target list database that you can find here. All targets were hit twice, unless otherwise stated.

Kentucky has 12 bombs on 5 targets within their borders (Louisville, Frankfort, Lexington, and forts Campbell and Knox), although fallout from Evansville and Cincinnati will also probably affect nearby areas within Kentucky. Fort Knox was hit 4 times. Most of the east and west will survive unscathed, and can probably recover.

Michigan has 18 bombs on 9 targets within their borders (Detroit, Detroit Airport, Detroit Arsenal, Dearborn, Warren, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Flint, and Selfridge ANGB), with fallout from Toledo possibly spilling in. Detroit was hit 3 times, while Detroit Arsenal was only hit once. Somehow, the entire north of the state was left unscathed, and combined with the knowledge that the area is relatively safe from climate change, it's probably the safest area in the country after the nuclear strike.

Detroit is also completely dead. Of the 18 bombs, 12 of them are sent to the Detroit area. If I were near the city, I'd leave immediately.

Oregon has 5 strikes (tied for the 2nd least with Rhode Island, only Vermont has less) on 3 targets within their borders (Salem, Portland and Umatilla). Umatilla was only hit once. While it probably isn't as safe as Michigan due to the sheer number of people who survived, all probably fighting for continued survival in the aftermath, you have a very good shot of surviving here, and it probably has the strongest recover of any state.
 
Correction: for some reason Iowa is only hit twice. I guess the guys in the government who made this list forgot about them after hitting every state capitol twice.
So... Iowa would also recover well I'm guessing? Losing literally only Des Moines (and fallout from Omaha) and being a major agricultural producer means that Iowa would survive on par with Oregon.
 
So... Iowa would also recover well I'm guessing? Losing literally only Des Moines (and fallout from Omaha) and being a major agricultural producer means that Iowa would survive on par with Oregon.
If the winds are blowing east, which they usually are in the mid latitudes IIRC, that's bad news for the Midwest.

Depending heavily on winds and fallout dispersal, Iowa and the Midwest would still face issues. The missile silos would be a guarenteed target, NORAD would be hit HARD, same with colarado

High Cancer rates, low birth rates, complete collapse of society and monetary systems, lack of basic healthcare, irradiated food and water
Not to mention huge mirgrations from urban area surivors and eventual conflicts

Life expectancy would be in the late 40s likely

Kruchev himself said the survivors would envy the dead
 
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