Scharnhorst joins Graf Spee at Montevideo
- Thread starter Grey Wolf
- Start date
The RN sends more than OTL and Exeter, Ajax, and Achilles have additional help to kill both.
Grey Wolf
Donor
I need to look again into the squadrons hunting the Graf Spee - there was certainly a carrier out there somewhere
I suppose the question is, how much does the RN know about where the Scharnhorst is before she turns up at Montevideo? Do they think she is still in the North Atlantic?
The Germans definitely would have won the Battle of the River Plate but the Graff Spee not capable of crossing the Atlantic to get home to Germany, she was too badly damaged
The Germans would have had to have taken the crew off the Graff Spee and transferred them to Scharnhorst interned them in Argentina
Leaving the Scharnhorst Run The Gauntlet of the royal Navy and French Navy alone she wasn't going to make it
Her absence would greatly diminish the German's Fleet in being allowing more resources to be diverted to Convoy escort and the Indian Ocean.
Both the Germans and the Japanese would feel the pain of her loss
The Germans would have had to have taken the crew off the Graff Spee and transferred them to Scharnhorst interned them in Argentina
Leaving the Scharnhorst Run The Gauntlet of the royal Navy and French Navy alone she wasn't going to make it
Her absence would greatly diminish the German's Fleet in being allowing more resources to be diverted to Convoy escort and the Indian Ocean.
Both the Germans and the Japanese would feel the pain of her loss
Eagle was with either Dunkerque or Strasbourg - Either one of these would be an interesting matchup against Scharnhorst. With a british cruiser squadron they will be more than enough for a twin and GS
It can't. They both have 11" guns, but they're different designs with different ammunition.
The problem with the fuel system was the cleaning system in the fuel was destroyed in the fighting.
This might need to be replaced. Without this system, most of the diesel fuel on the Graf Spee would be unstable. At the time of entered port the Graf Spee had only 12 hours of usable fuel left.
If you fix the fuel system the Graf Spee might have a chance of making a run for it. The Graf Spee had other problem=s too.
I can't see there being enough time to repair the damage to the ship or to be able to replace the ammo.
The chance of a successful return to Germany look slime to me.
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Could Scharnhorst top up her tanks off Graf Spee's remaining fuel?
Actually, since they know Graf Spee is already a dead ship afloat, why not make one final sortie? After all, if you can cripple the British ships, you make it that much more likely Scharnhorst will actually make it home, and even if you do end up sinking, well, the GS was going down one way or the other right?
Actually, since they know Graf Spee is already a dead ship afloat, why not make one final sortie? After all, if you can cripple the British ships, you make it that much more likely Scharnhorst will actually make it home, and even if you do end up sinking, well, the GS was going down one way or the other right?
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Why would the Germans send a single ship to reinforce a cripple at the focal point of multiple strong Allied task forces?
Grey Wolf
Donor
Well that wasn't the inference
The inference was that the Scharnhorst had broken out into the North Atlantic, and put into Montevideo soon after Graf Spee
But assuming the Battle of River Plate takes place as historic, Montevideo is covered by a cruiser squadron and the next destination of most the heavy units of the Allied Atlantic fleet. If the Scharnhorst found herself there, she would be sunk by overwhelming forces.
The Scharnhorst used bunker crude and steam turbines. The Graf Spee used diesel engines.
So 2 different fuel systems.
Ah, right. Still, even if the Graf Spee is almost spent, does she have enough left for one last fight?
Not without a lot of repairs.
The best option is to avoid a fight and run for home.
without the desalination unit, they would be short of water and even if the fuel system was fixed and the damage to the hull would mean she could sink in bad weather in the North Atlantic.
Any attempt to fight or run for home would be suicidal for the crew.
Scuttling the ship was the best way to save the lives of the crew and prevent the ship from falling into enemy hands.
Short of the ASB fixing the ship, the Graf Spee stands no chance.
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Eight hunting groups as of 5 October 1939:
Force F (North America/West Indies)
CA York
CA Berwick
Force G (East Coast of South America)
CA Cumberland
CA Exeter
(later)
CL Achilles
CL Ajax
Force H (Cape of Good Hope, designation to yet assigned to Gibraltar Force)
CA Shropshire
CA Sussex
Force I (Ceylon)
CV Eagle
CA Dorsetshire
CA Cornwall
Force K (Pernambuco)
BC Renown
CV Ark Royal
Force L (Brest)
BC Dunquerque
CV Bearn
CL Georges Leygues
CL Gloire
CL Montcalm
Force M (Dakar)
CA Dupliex
CA Foch
Force N (West Indies)
BC Strasbourg
CV Hermes
CL Neptune
Source: Chronology of the War at Sea 1939-1945 J. Rohwer and G. Hummelchen, p. 5
Regards,
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I don't mean she survives to run home, I mean she sorties out with Scharnhorst to sink the British cruisers. She's going to go down one way or the other, and if she can cripple or sink the cruisers doing so, the British will have a harder time locating the Scharnhorst late.
No, they are in no shape to fight and do any real damage.
I can't see Captain Hans Langsdorff order such an attack with no chance of success or survival.
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