Scenarios where German unification is not led by Prussia?

[Ofaloaf]

A fairly simple question-- what plausible scenarios are there for a post-1648 unification of Germany that is not led by Brandenburg/Prussia? I'd imagine that it'd be even harder to pull off with a post-1815 POD, but those sorts of scenarios would be really cool too.

Could Bavaria unify Germany? Hanover? Saxony (and I am aware of the Tudor Bulls TL)? Could any of the German state have done it, or were there certain qualifications before everyone else who follow along?

 

[Valdemar II]

A fairly simple question-- what plausible scenarios are there for a post-1648 unification of Germany that is not led by Bradenburg/Prussia? I'd imagine that it'd be even harder to pull off with a post-1815 POD, but those sorts of scenarios would be really cool too.

Could Bavaria unify Germany? Hanover? Saxony (and I am aware of the Tudor Bulls TL)? Could any of the German state have done it, or were there certain qualifications before everyone else who follow along?

The problem is the pure size of Germany, before 1812 I could easily create a plausible way to get another country unify Germany, but after 1815 it's almost impossible to get a unification not lead by Prussia, simply because of Prussias size and strategial position. Through Arctic Warrior has one lead by Hanover in "If you wait you may become King of Sweden", which seem plausible.

 

[bobbis14]

Hapsberg wank?

 

[Susano]

Hapsberg wank?

Habsburg
But Habsburg had no interest in it, due to their multiethnic Empire. They wanted to rule that Empire, and dominate a Germany of small states, which is what the German Confederation was. Hence why the Austrian government was always so desperate to keep that status quo.

Before 1806, in a centralisation of the HRE scenario, maybe, though...

 

[Nicole]

Habsburg
But Habsburg had no interest in it, due to their multiethnic Empire. They wanted to rule that Empire, and dominate a Germany of small states, which is what the German Confederation was. Hence why the Austrian government was always so desperate to keep that status quo.

Before 1806, in a centralisation of the HRE scenario, maybe, though...

Hm- could you see a scenario where the Hapsburgs lose Hungary in 1848 or something, and refocus on Germany?

Though the problem is that the loss of Hungary would do immense damage to the Hapsburg prestige, and more importantly, their ability to take such actions...

 

[bobbis14]

Hm- could you see a scenario where the Hapsburgs lose Hungary in 1848 or something, and refocus on Germany?

Though the problem is that the loss of Hungary would do immense damage to the Hapsburg prestige, and more importantly, their ability to take such actions...

Screw Hungary, their intrests in Italy would do

 

[Thande]

Hm- could you see a scenario where the Hapsburgs lose Hungary in 1848 or something, and refocus on Germany?

'Twould make more sense if they lost Hungary almost 150 years ago during the War of the Spanish Succession: there was a significant rebellion there OTL.

 

[Susano]

'Twould make more sense if they lost Hungary almost 150 years ago during the War of the Spanish Succession: there was a significant rebellion there OTL.

Of course, purely diplomatically its IMO unlikely that the revolution suceeds, I think Austria would rather drop out of the war to focus on it then risk Hungary breaking away again. But if it suceeds, I dont think Austria can become/remain a great power. They will still have quite some reputation among the German nationalists because after all the Habsburgs were the Emperors, but Im not sure if thats enough to face Prussia... (of course with a PoD in the WotSS, who knows what the butterflies do to Prussia).

Stray thought not regarding the topic, though: Heh, as a possible, nekromansique WotSS result Hungary becomes independant as a Bourbon Kingdom, while the Habsburgs gain/retain Spain (hm, that would also nicely screw over the Franco-Ottoman alliance)