Railroads after a Confederate Victory

They had a reason for doing this. This did not want to the new government in Richmond to become a big-spending government like the one in Washington DC.
Internal improvements were the states can cooperate to build new railroads or any other improvements if they want.
The whole point of the CSA was to limit the power of the central government and keep most of the power at the state level.

Well, technically, it was to preserve and maintain the institution of slavery forever and ever and ever.

The CSA approach to federal/state rights fell apart decisively during the Civil war as the Jefferson Davis administration abrogated massive power and administrative authority to itself. It's an open question as to how a post-war CSA would have evolved. There was, however, a strong centrifugal drive, and it's likely that the states would have gone their own way. I don't hold much hope for states jealous of their power and entitlements cooperating in joint infrastructure ventures.

In practical terms, each of the Coastal Confederate states was an economic locus to itself, with its own combination of road, rail and river providing access to the local port for Export and Import. These secured the interests of local planters and economic interests. Development becomes a tricky thing because that runs up against local entrenched interests. The more ambitious the project, the more entrenched interests.

An inter-state infrastructural compact would probably not work out, because one state would be worried about losing out.
 
Well, technically, it was to preserve and maintain the institution of slavery forever and ever and ever.
Internal improvements, free soil and tariffs were issues too at the time, but slavery was probably the biggest one.
The CSA approach to federal/state rights fell apart decisively during the Civil war as the Jefferson Davis administration abrogated massive power and administrative authority to itself. It's an open question as to how a post-war CSA would have evolved.
indeed.
There was, however, a strong centrifugal drive, and it's likely that the states would have gone their own way. I don't hold much hope for states jealous of their power and entitlements cooperating in joint infrastructure ventures.
Hard to say if they would or not.
In practical terms, each of the Coastal Confederate states was an economic locus to itself, with its own combination of road, rail and river providing access to the local port for Export and Import. These secured the interests of local planters and economic interests. Development becomes a tricky thing because that runs up against local entrenched interests. The more ambitious the project, the more entrenched interests.

An inter-state infrastructural compact would probably not work out, because one state would be worried about losing out.
maybe, maybe not.
 
If the CSA wins its independence, I would expect that the status quo antebellum would continue as far as CSA railroad construction and operation. As DG Valdron pointed out, this would tend toward local projects, to facilitate easier access to water transport (river or ocean). Over the course of time, these might expand/combine into larger state and interstate systems (as railroad development did pretty much anywhere). But the CSA's dependence on cotton for export is going to limit development.
  • It is a bulky, low unit cost, commodity traffic. Railroads can handle that cheaply-but boats/barges just as much, if not more so. Also, unlike the north, water traffic in the CSA will not have winter freeze ups.
  • Cotton, like all agricultural products, is a seasonal traffic which has wide swings of traffic levels during the year, making for even more expensive working of the business.
  • Lack of investment capital will make it more difficult to finance railroad development vs. water transport, along the same routes. The tracks must be laid. The river/ocean is already there.
  • CSA railroads will have no frontier to build toward/into. Northern RR development was from eastern port cities (New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Boston) into the surrounding hinterland. From there, across the Appalachians to the Great Lakes/Ohio River. From there, to Chicago/granger roads. Then, to Omaha/the Pacific. The CSA is not going anywhere, except Texas. The only hope would be a ttl Texas & Pacific analogue, but there will be no equivalent of the Union Pacific. West Texas (even less so a CSA Arizona and New Mexico) simply won't support the settlement that Kansas or Nebraska did. The CSA would have no port city on the Pacific to build toward, and no real trade with China/Japan if it did.
  • Until industry develops enough to produce higher value/lower bulk goods in sufficient volume, there will not be demand for the higher speed overland transportation that railroads supply. Of course, without the expanded markets the railroad development allows, there won't be the level of demand for industry to develop, either.
I expect the CSA railroads, for the first 2-3 generations at least, will continue to be local/at most regional (in a single state) projects to facilitate access to river or ocean transport, (mostly the former). These lines may link up to form systems within their respective states. Finally, the tendrils will reach and connect at state lines to form interconnection within the CSA, or with the boarder states that are part of the Union. The biggest determinant of how quickly this occurs is outside capital, and most of that would need to come from the USA. I just don't think that there will be enough traffic to make any CSA rail lines viable investments to European capitalists but Northern investors might look to extend their lines/connections across the Potomac and Ohio Rivers. Cross state (tidewater to border with the Union) lines would, imo, tend to be finished (and built more intentionally) than interstate lines in the CSA, probably through the end of the 19th Century.
 
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Apropos to this discussion, I'm currently reading Kenneth Noe's Southwest Virginia's Railroad: Modernization and the Sectional Crisis, which covers the creation of the Virginia & Tennessee Railroad from Lynchburg to Bristol and how it transformed the economy and society and politics of the region. The early chapters cover the ideation, politics, and eventual creation of the V&T, and it offers some interesting insights into how Virginia in particular approached the concept and purpose of Railways.

First off, getting it passed was a shit show. Several earlier projects through the 1830s and '40s had been rejected or gone broke before they could break ground. The V&T was rejected the first time in Mar '48. John B. Floyd, the chief proponent, actually had to convince another delegate to pretend to faint (the poor SOB go bled by the surgeon!) as a delaying tactic on the second vote (which was about to fail) in order to buy time to win over more supporters. Even once (barely) passed, special interests and Jeffersonian Ideologues fought to kill it all the way to the groundbreaking. Primary opposition came from a) staunch Jeffersonians, who opposed State Spending on principle, b) competing industries like canals and turnpikes, and c) other towns such as Danville and Buchanan who wanted the RR to come through them, not rival Lynchburg.

Politically, the main purpose for its advocates was locally economic and political, but some saw its geopolitical and strategic potential from the start. The Lynchburg Patriot, for example, openly supported the V&T as a way to unite SWVA to Richmond economically and politically (up to 1850 SWVA was more like NWVA and feeling isolated and ignored by the Tidewater), and also unite Richmond further to the West and Deep South. They saw it as a way to further tie VA to the South. The Wilmot Proviso was causing massive controversy at the time and already some proto-Fire Eaters in the South were openly advocating southern secession. Combined with the T&G and ET&V it indeed further tied VA to the South and indeed made SWVA much more closely allied to the Piedmont and Tidewater economically, revitalized dying mining industries, and also made the region more dependent upon slavery and the Slave Economy. As such, SWVA broke with NWVA and backed secession.

It's also noteworthy that unlike the many RRs of the Deep South and Southeast, which had a mix of gauges and were generally built by private companies to support the Plantation System as others here have noted (cotton to port) and not to facilitate interstate travel or commerce, the Lynchburg to Chattanooga corridor (despite ownership by different groups) was a single common gauge and in part specifically implemented to support interstate connections, offering a possible model for future unifying ventures. When the CS controlled the southern Great Valley region they could move troops and supplies very quickly between theaters. When lost to the Union, the transit times through the tangled web of shorter lines in the Southeast tripled transit times at a minimum. Many predicted this advantage, most will be forced by the war to at least acknowledge it.

So, with respect to the OP, I see a similar dynamic playing out here, a political clash between those who see the advantage between strategic interstate rail use and those competing interests, be they ideological (Jeffersonian opposition to State or Federal Investments or antifederalist arguments for State Sovereignty) or economic (competing projects fighting for other funds). Depending on how far into the war the CS was victorious will empower or disempower these factions. Irrespective of this, most lines will be fully private and all will be at least partially private, and Ideology will limit the ability or willingness of the Richmond Government to force compliance to any universal standards or meaningful interrail cooperation. Managing RRs in the CSA during the war was also a challenge, with coordination between RRs ever a challenge (Bragg's redeployments in '63 were often delayed due to head-on collisions between trains!). This all will limit how fast the CS can build up its network, meaningfully regulate it, and limit how truly interconnected it is. Similarly a limited supply of iron will delay things, at least at first (by '63 many CS RRs were unusable due to deterioration and they resorted to cannibalism of spur lines to keep the trunks and arteries working).

So, I wouldn't predict them to meaningfully keep up with the US in terms of rail miles and I'd definitely suspect that any sort of standardization or cooperation or regulation capable of forging a meaningfully unified rail system will be a long way off, if they ever appear.
 
They had a reason for doing this. This did not want to the new government in Richmond to become a big-spending government like the one in Washington DC.
Internal improvements were the states can cooperate to build new railroads or any other improvements if they want.
The whole point of the CSA was to limit the power of the central government and keep most of the power at the state level.

It depends on which ‘they’ one is talking about. The original Confederates meaning those baying for secession back to the Nullification Crisis and before then by in large very much wanted a central government that would never grow in size and scope.

“the tariff [issue] was only a pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question.” Andrew Jackson May 1, 1833.

It gets complicated because neither Davis nor John C Calhoun were one of those folks. Calhoun used Nullification as a measure to show there was a way short of secession to check perceived federal overreach.

Once the original Confederates finally managed to win on the secession issue they had to share a political space with people who had very different views on state and federal power than themselves.
 
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It depends on which ‘they’ one is talking about. The original Confederates meaning those baying for secession back to the Nullification Crisis and before then by in large very much wanted a central government that would never grow in size and scope.

“the tariff [issue] was only a pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question.” Andrew Jackson May 1, 1833.

It gets complicated because neither Davis nor John C Calhoun were one of those folks. Calhoun used Nullification as a measure to show there was a way short of secession to check perceived federal overreach.

Once the original Confederates finally managed to win on the secession issue they had to share a political space with people who had very different views on state and federal power than themselves.
indeed.
I imagine that the different factions in the CSA would have different views on the level of power the central government should have.
 

dcharles

Banned
Would a railway project be legal under the Confederate constitution? It's my understanding that the document prohibition many types of infrastructure projects.

It prohibits those projects for the purposes of facilitating commerce. It doesn't prohibit them altogether. Providing for the common defense, for example, or establishing a post route would be okay. So the government building a railroad for the purpose of military readiness and then leasing it to a company might have the incidental effect of facilitating commerce, but that would not be it's purpose. Under most rules of statutory and Constitutional construction, as long as the fact record supported that the purpose was indeed what the government claimed it was, that would pass muster in court.
 
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dcharles

Banned
It's also noteworthy that unlike the many RRs of the Deep South and Southeast, which had a mix of gauges and were generally built by private companies

Not just you who mentioned it, but some context here is good. Probably 95% of the track (or more) in the Confederacy was either 4'8'' or 5' gauge. That 5 percent? A few miles of track had been laid in 5'6'' west of the Mississippi. Since there were no crossings of the Lower Mississippi in those days, a different gauge on the other side of the Mississippi wouldn't have mattered until a couple of decades after the end of the war. And Virginia and North Carolina were the only states that rocked the 4'8''. Most everywhere else was 5'. I feel like this is one of those factoids that gets repeated over and over, but it's not like you had to switch trains every twenty miles or something because there 5 different wacky gauges. As long as a person wasn't going to NC or Virginia, it wouldn't be an issue.

And of course, all railroads were built by private companies in those days.

 
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In my own view, the experience of War would have rendered the Southern people even more sanguine regarding the expansion of the roads, which offer secure, interior lines of communication and supply protected from enemy naval incursion. The expansion of the 'iron network' will also ensure the development of an authentic 'Southern nationalism' by 1900.

A.S. Buford's Richmond and Danville line likely has the best prospect for interstate domination east of the Mississippi. Consolidation of Atlantic and Piedmont 'Air Lines' is probably inevitable. Then, of course, there is the matter of the trans-Mississippi and the Pacific dream. In the 1850s it was Duff Green's ambition for Louisiana's New Orleans, Opelousas and Great Western Railroad, Texas' Sabine and Rio Grande Railroad, and Mexico's Rio Grande, Mexican, and Pacific Railway to connect. It was an engineering and capitalistic purgatory, albeit ruined totally by the onset of the Civil War.
 

dcharles

Banned
Update here:

I got to doing a little bit of research on rail gauges. I was hoping to understand the merits of one size over another, and there seem to be million little reasons why different places did different things. Nothing really to show for it. But, I did come across this little chestnut:

"Because the British were the first to build railroads, some American engineers went to England to study railroad construction, and tended to use the Stephenson gauge. The first railroad in the state of New York, the Mohawk & Hudson, opened in 1831 using the Stephenson gauge, and a few others followed suit, but rail gauge was often chosen according to the inclination of the engineer in charge and some believed that a wider gauge would give a locomotive more stability. American railroads were planned to serve cities and their surrounding areas with little thought that these networks would eventually meet. From the 1830s through the 1850s, the number of gauges proliferated. For example, the Camden & Amboy railroad, though in the vicinity of the Mohawk & Hudson, chose a four-foot-nine-and-three-quarter-inch gauge. In the South, the Charleston & Hamburg railway was built with a five-foot gauge. Nearby states that wanted to interact with the line, copied the gauge, so by 1861, over 7,000 miles of track with this wider gauge had been laid throughout the South. The Ohio legislature established a four-foot-ten-inch gauge of for the state. The state of California chose a gauge of five feet, and some railroads in Missouri and Texas chose six feet. By the 1870s, there were over twenty different gauges in use in America."​
But wait, but wait... That says that people were using different rail gauges all over the place. I've seen so many Civil War histories talk about this rail gauge thing being peculiar to the South. But this is a source about railroads, not the Civil War, and it doesn't say that at all. If anything, it seems like the South was a little more standardized than the rest of the country. What's going on here?

I think what's going on is a little case of selection bias. There were two rail gauges in Virginia specifically. Virginia was where the action was, where the eyeballs were, where Lee's most famous campaigns took place. It would therefore have been a problem that effected him, the capital, and the Army of Northern Virginia in particular, and it would have been an especially frustrating issue in the waning days of the war, when the transport network was at it's most decrepit. I'm sure that there are lots of references to railroad frustrations in his and the other officers papers from the time, making historians of the period exaggerate the gauge issue's importance. It seems more likely that maintenance issues and intentional destruction of the lines was probably a bigger issue than the gauges themselves in ultimately degrading the Confederate transportation network.
 
Even the UK end up with 2 major railway gauges.
Standard gauge in Britain(4 ft 8+1⁄2 inch) and Irish gauge(5ft 3inch) in Ireland
Irish gauge was also used in Brazil and Australia.
A broader gauge is more expensive to build but can carry more cargo. Also, a broader gauge is more difficult to make bends in.
broad gauge is ideal in places like Russia where there are long straight stretches of track
 
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Not just you who mentioned it, but some context here is good. Probably 95% of the track (or more) in the Confederacy was either 4'8'' or 5' gauge. That 5 percent? A few miles of track had been laid in 5'6'' west of the Mississippi. Since there were no crossings of the Lower Mississippi in those days, a different gauge on the other side of the Mississippi wouldn't have mattered until a couple of decades after the end of the war. And Virginia and North Carolina were the only states that rocked the 4'8''. Most everywhere else was 5'. I feel like this is one of those factoids that gets repeated over and over, but it's not like you had to switch trains every twenty miles or something because there 5 different wacky gauges. As long as a person wasn't going to NC or Virginia, it wouldn't be an issue.
You are absolutely correct here. I did some of my own research after you first posted this and the issue comes from the proliferation of 3' and 3'-6" Narrow Gauges in the south in the 1870s-1890s, particularly as railroads were built into more mountainous areas where a narrow gauge greatly reduced construction costs (much easier to build on a mountainside or dig a tunnel if your gauge is narrower). And living in Virginia, yes, I'm used to seeing different historical gauges all over the place, and this affected my perceptions. I used to work for Norfolk Southern (back in the late '90s/early 2000's when they actually believed in Safety First, mind you), which ultimately absorbed many non-standard gauge RRs across the south, mostly, looking back, built after the war, and I let my memories of all these narrow gauge post-war lines affect my judgement.

For additional clarity, it wasn't just Virginia & NC that had 4'-8", though primarily the case. There were a few 4'-8" areas elsewhere, such as a "Y" near Montgomery. The below map is from Wikipedia, and I can't absolutely attest to it's complete accuracy, but it does show that 4'-8" and 5' ruled VA-NC as you stated, but other places did see non-5' gauge outside of these two States. As railroads expand into the mountains Post War iTTL, a narrow gauge will most likely (almost certainly) be chosen for practical engineering reasons.

Whether there's ever a push to standardize, or any money to support this, will depend a lot of Post War politics and whether the Jeffersonian Dems and States Rights folks (e.g. Gov. Brown and his political offspring) will be willing to support something as Whiggish as a unified national gauge, let alone be willing to spend the multiple millions to make it happen. My gut feeling is still that 2-4 gauges will proliferate through the 19th and early 20th centuries at a minimum.

781px-Railroad_of_Confederacy-1861.jpg



And of course, all railroads were built by private companies in those days.

Some clarification is needed here. When I said "built by private companies" I didn't just mean the RR company itself, but the investors, e.g. they were Privately Funded and Constructed. The V&T, ETN&V, and IIRC G&T, by contrast, were built in part from State funds (what we today would call a "public-private partnership" or PPP). In the case of the V&T, it was a very controversial move and was nearly defeated in the VA House of Delegates (Floyd had an ally fake fainting to buy time!) because of Democratic opposition to public infrastructure spending on ideological principles (VA Dems of the time were very much Jeffersonian in their suspicions of any government investments). The V&T's biggest proponent, future Governor John B. Floyd, was a Democrat too, but SWVA Dems at the time were somewhat "Whiggish" when it cam e to infrastructure expansion, as they knew it was necessary to make their region into more than a backwater.

The V&T was (per Noe) also specifically built with the political intent of connecting Richmond to the West and Deep South with the intent of increasing ties in the advent of secession (making Virginia overtly "Southern"). William "Extra Billy" Smith and Henry Wise in particular were hoping to both tie Western VA closer to Richmond and Richmond closer to the South (prior to 1851 there was open talk of the western VA counties breaking away to form a new State; e.g. William Burwell).

The greater point here is the motivation behind the railways. Most of the wholly private ventures were intended for strictly commercial purposes, and usually to benefit the investors, primarily plantation owners. No one cared about any greater plan for connecting Atlanta to Richmond, for example, just getting Thaddeus Farquhar's cotton to Charleston harbor. Thus most ran straight to a port with no intention of connecting into a larger network, there to take cotton and other crops to ships, not facilitate interstate transit. Other lines later branched off of those original trunks over time to fulfil similar commercial means, and eventually interconnected in an organic, ad hoc manner. Eventually interstate travel from Atlanta to Richmond through the Carolinas by rail was possible, but through a maze-like network of mostly interior-to-port lines with numerous train changes along the way.

The VA-TN-GA corridor was different in that it had Public investment with a specific political/strategic purpose: Interstate connectivity to unite the future Confederacy that some Fire Eaters were already discussing in 1848. This line not only benefited the Great Valley economically, it allowed direct travel from Atlanta to Richmond in a straight shot, possibly without changing trains. The RR brought local goods to ports, but it also solidified economic ties between the region and Richmond and the Deep South (as was an overt part of the political motivation), such that by 1861 SWVA greatly favored secession compared to the more isolated NWVA, even though in 1851 prior to the new VA constitution the two regions were of a like mind when it came to "those highfalutin planters out east".

The effects of these two different approaches can be seen in the war. Prior to 1863 the CSA was able to quickly dispatch armies between theaters following the direct V-T-G line. After Knoxville fell to the Union in '63 Bragg had to send forces via this maze of RRs, with numerous train swaps. The coordination between these routes was largely non-existent, and private freight was often (frustratingly for the CS Army) given priority over the war effort. They even suffered a couple of head-on collisions between trains. As such, it took 3-4 weeks to accomplish what had previously taken days.
 

dcharles

Banned
@Geekhis Khan, good post, dude! Couple things:

The map actually comes from West Point, from their Atlas of the Civil War. IIRC, they themselves got the info from Black's RR of the Confederacy. In my estimation, it's as reliable as anything from its era.

But, if the source cited in post #50 is correct, then railroads being built without an idea of interconnectivity was the norm all over the US prewar.

One last thing, I wasn't picking on you about the gauge thing. I've been studying this since I was a kid, going on twenty five, thirty years now, and I've seen those comments about Southern gauge systems being all fucked up in a million places. It was only my familiarity with the maps that made me question it and do further research.

Thanks for all your insights though. Very helpful stuff.
 
@Geekhis Khan, good post, dude! Couple things:

The map actually comes from West Point, from their Atlas of the Civil War. IIRC, they themselves got the info from Black's RR of the Confederacy. In my estimation, it's as reliable as anything from its era.
Good to know, so we can consider it as accurate as we can hope, right? :winkytongue:

But, if the source cited in post #50 is correct, then railroads being built without an idea of interconnectivity was the norm all over the US prewar.
Absolutely. All US railroads pre-20th C. were ad hoc for the most part, and got worse after the war (e.g. the post war Narrow Gauge lines). My point was in reference to the politics of the post war era per the OP. With the "antifederalist" south gone, the "federalist" North would be more likely to push national strategies such as standardized gauges than the South. Otherwise it's wait until national monopolies form in the 20th C. But even then so much depends on the factors that led to the CS victory and when it happened. An early victory (say '62) increases the likelihood that the south would double down on the "supremacy of the Southron Way of Life" and lean on their assumption of "we had it right from the start" and thus reject "national" infrastructure projects, while a '64 victory scenario might have the struggling CSA reconsider whether a National Defense Strategy WRT railroads would be worth adopting "Yankee Whig" ideas on infrastructure investment, given the hard slog they faced.

One last thing, I wasn't picking on you about the gauge thing. I've been studying this since I was a kid, going on twenty five, thirty years now, and I've seen those comments about Southern gauge systems being all fucked up in a million places. It was only my familiarity with the maps that made me question it and do further research.
No worries! We all have gaps in our knowledge, and you filled in some of mine, Thank you! :)

Thanks for all your insights though. Very helpful stuff.
You too.
 

dcharles

Banned
Good to know, so we can consider it as accurate as we can hope, right? :winkytongue:

Basically, lol. In my estimation, it is as accurate as any ACW data from the mid-20th century. Not to say that there isn't some Zoomer who'll blow this map up in six months, but it's been the standard for as long as I can remember, and debunking it sounds boring af.
 
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