PC/WI: Canal des Duex Mers expanded like the Kiel? Effects on Mediterranean & Africa campaigns in WWII?

Fuzzy Dunlop · Jul 10, 2020

The Canal des Duex Mers is a series of canals and locks that were built on wards from the 1600's to allow ships to traverse between the Atlantic and Med' avoiding the longer circumventing of Iberia.

What if like the Kiel Canal it was continually improved, widened and deepened to allow proper ocean going vessels such as battleships to traverse it?

How would the African and Mediterranean campaigns change for both sides if this was able to be used by either the Vichy French or the Nazi's?

Much obliged!

Nick P · Jul 10, 2020

The RAF would expend several squadrons of bombers trying to wreck the canal and its pumping system.
British Army would send special forces to try and wreck the locks and bridges on the network.
The French Resistance would be sent many more tons of explosives and weapons with the clear order to drain the damn thing, preferably with a warship or two trapped inside.

RamscoopRaider · Jul 10, 2020

France is bankrupted by the cost, the Mediterranean and African campaigns in WWII are completely different because the French lost WWI by being too poorly equipped in 1914 because all the money went to the Canal. Kiel is a bit over 98km with 2 locks, the Canal des Duex Mers is 433km with 118 locks. Panama, with 6 locks and 82km cost as much to build as the entire French Navy in 1914, building something that much bigger is simply unaffordable

McPherson · Jul 10, 2020

RamscoopRaider said:
France is bankrupted by the cost, the Mediterranean and African campaigns in WWII are completely different because the French lost WWI by being too poorly equipped in 1914 because all the money went to the Canal. Kiel is a bit over 98km with 2 locks, the Canal des Duex Mers is 433km with 118 locks. Panama, with 6 locks and 82km cost as much to build as the entire French Navy in 1914, building something that much bigger is simply unaffordable

Either that or France somehow gets the Bomb and decides to make an antitank water filled ditch with it, that also floats battleships between oceans; because you know... Gamelin and Darlan and Gensoul are the world's fourth, fifth and sixth greatest military geniuses?

Coulsdon Eagle · Jul 10, 2020

Any ship travelling through that canal would be a wonderful target given that there would be speed restrictions - the traverse time would be hours (days!) confined in a narrow channel, although I suppose they wouldn't be threatened by torpedo bombers!

From a German perspective they would still need to cross the Bay of Biscay to get ships into the canal, having either gone north of Scotland or rushed the Channel. So not a grea deal of change except not having to run the gauntlet of Gibraltar.

If France is still in the war and allied with Britain, it would save considerable time moving from the Med to Britain, and would be safe from U-boats, although I doubt it could handle the amount of traffic passing through the Straits of Gibraltar.

Magniac · Jul 10, 2020

"Cheaper to lower the Atlantic than to raise the Titanic."

PauL62 · Jul 10, 2020

I'm going to be off topic, but the best would have been to enlarge the canal after WWII.

The Gunslinger · Jul 10, 2020

I doubt it would ever get big enough for capital ships but I could maybe see it getting upgraded to the point where a small destroyer could squeeze through.

Coulsdon Eagle · Jul 10, 2020

The Gunslinger said:
I doubt it would ever get big enough for capital ships but I could maybe see it getting upgraded to the point where a small destroyer could squeeze through.

What would be the point from a commercial standpoint? You want to be able to move big ships (for big toll fees!) and big savings on time & mileage (or is that kilometre-age?) saved.

RamscoopRaider · Jul 10, 2020

Coulsdon Eagle said:
What would be the point from a commercial standpoint? You want to be able to move big ships (for big toll fees!) and big savings on time & mileage (or is that kilometre-age?) saved.

Barge shipping from Bordeaux to the Med, same as the current canal? Barges are cheaper than rail transit, and expanding from the current 1200t barges to the European standard of 2450t could be justifiable in some timelines

Grey Wolf · Jul 10, 2020

Surely Napoleon would have used it if it had been big enough for ships of the line in 1805?

PauL62 · Jul 11, 2020

This is a map of occupied France during WWII, where the canal is a strategic zone for Axis powers. I could see Italian maritime warships (cruisers, submarines) pass through the canal up to Bordeaux, in order to form the BETASOM (Italian naval military area in the atlantic):