Once Upon a December: A Different Decembrist Russia

[Razgriz 2K9]

Okay to settle this...

The territory of the Phillippines was for the most part united, the only exception being the isles of the Sulu Archipelago (The Sultanate of Sulu). Depending on how Sulu gets lucky, they might be the only separate independent state in the OTL Philippines ITTL, considering they've managed to remain independent for so long.

Kasumi, you made mentioned of a second sultanate, do you mean Mindanao (which btw is already a part of Spain?)

Also, it would still be difficult to really bring Sweden back to a power rivaling those of Prussia/Germany and Russia. Now it's possible, and if they manage to buy out the Congo from Leopold II, Sweden would actually be a lot more powerful than Belgium in the same period.

As for Persia and Afghanistan, I probably would not recommend it. If things go the way of OTL, an isolated Afghanistan would become a British puppet, if not a part of the British East India Company. Persia...is a bit iffy. With no Russian influence on their part, who knows how they'll turn out...

...and speaking of the Qajars, will they do like OTL and try to reclaim the Azeri Khanates (Erivan, Nakhchivan & Talysh) from Russia? Would be an interesting test for Petelist Russia...

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

On the other hand, so a 'Finlandization' of Persia and Afghanistan would not be a good idea. As for a Qajar attempt to reclaim their lost territories from Russia, Pestel and Muraviev would at first be patient with Persia. However, if they were being helped by Britain in acquiring these states in return for an alliance with the British Empire, then they would have to resort to unpleasant methods. Basically, Pestelism could also be a potent weapon in which Pestel would pledge to help Asian nation modernize in exchange for a military alliance. However, if a foreign power does try to enroach into its territory, then it'd assert their sovereignty a lot more aggressive than OTL Soviet Union.

On the other hand, I could also post the alt-Russian constitution on the May, 3rd, 1791 model but it might take a bit more time.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

On the other hand, so a 'Finlandization' of Persia and Afghanistan would not be a good idea. As for a Qajar attempt to reclaim their lost territories from Russia, Pestel and Muraviev would at first be patient with Persia. However, if they were being helped by Britain in acquiring these states in return for an alliance with the British Empire, then they would have to resort to unpleasant methods. Basically, Pestelism could also be a potent weapon in which Pestel would pledge to help Asian nation modernize in exchange for a military alliance. However, if a foreign power does try to enroach into its territory, then it'd assert their sovereignty a lot more aggressive than OTL Soviet Union.

On the other hand, I could also post the alt-Russian constitution on the May, 3rd, 1791 model but it might take a bit more time.

Certainly possible, given that it was British agents who pressed Fath' Ali Shah of Persia to reconquer the territories lost in the last Russo-Persian War (1804-1813).

 

[kasumigenx]

Okay to settle this...

The territory of the Phillippines was for the most part united, the only exception being the isles of the Sulu Archipelago (The Sultanate of Sulu). Depending on how Sulu gets lucky, they might be the only separate independent state in the OTL Philippines ITTL, considering they've managed to remain independent for so long.

Kasumi, you made mentioned of a second sultanate, do you mean Mindanao (which btw is already a part of Spain?)

Also, it would still be difficult to really bring Sweden back to a power rivaling those of Prussia/Germany and Russia. Now it's possible, and if they manage to buy out the Congo from Leopold II, Sweden would actually be a lot more powerful than Belgium in the same period.

As for Persia and Afghanistan, I probably would not recommend it. If things go the way of OTL, an isolated Afghanistan would become a British puppet, if not a part of the British East India Company. Persia...is a bit iffy. With no Russian influence on their part, who knows how they'll turn out...

...and speaking of the Qajars, will they do like OTL and try to reclaim the Azeri Khanates (Erivan, Nakhchivan & Talysh) from Russia? Would be an interesting test for Petelist Russia...

I did not say they were not united but the people of Luzon and Southern Mindanao/Maguindanao wanted autonomy, The people of Luzon were rebellious (and the Macabebe scouts quelled their rebellions) even if the Philippines was united it was unstable even now, the same was for the people of Mindanao giving these people autonomy will help the british and the dutch maintain their rule and these people given autonomy will be loyal to the British or the dutch.

On the other hand, so a 'Finlandization' of Persia and Afghanistan would not be a good idea. As for a Qajar attempt to reclaim their lost territories from Russia, Pestel and Muraviev would at first be patient with Persia. However, if they were being helped by Britain in acquiring these states in return for an alliance with the British Empire, then they would have to resort to unpleasant methods. Basically, Pestelism could also be a potent weapon in which Pestel would pledge to help Asian nation modernize in exchange for a military alliance. However, if a foreign power does try to enroach into its territory, then it'd assert their sovereignty a lot more aggressive than OTL Soviet Union.

On the other hand, I could also post the alt-Russian constitution on the May, 3rd, 1791 model but it might take a bit more time.

One of the Cadet lineages of Sassanids are from Georgia as I remember so the Romanovs may have some Sassanid blood and claim Persia.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

Yeah, but then allowing them autonomy will only bring them a step closer to true independence...and when you're a 19th century power, especially a powerful one as Great Britain, or a secondary power like the Netherlands (or United Netherlands, should Belgium stay within the union) that would be bad. Granted, giving them some degree of self rule is good, but it would most likely be run like the other colonies.

The Romanovs have distant ties to the Sassanid Dynasty of Persia? First time I've ever heard that.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Now there's something we don't know that only kasumi knows.

 

[kasumigenx]

Yeah, but then allowing them autonomy will only bring them a step closer to true independence...and when you're a 19th century power, especially a powerful one as Great Britain, or a secondary power like the Netherlands (or United Netherlands, should Belgium stay within the union) that would be bad. Granted, giving them some degree of self rule is good, but it would most likely be run like the other colonies.

The Romanovs have distant ties to the Sassanid Dynasty of Persia? First time I've ever heard that.

I think giving the people more autonomy and rights will make them more loyal and continue to help them against the wars, the only way that the Dutch and the Brits gain Luzon from the Spanish is to help the people of Luzon against the Macabebe scouts and give them autonomy, I think Maguindanao should also be given autonomy, they will be loyal subjects in that way

Now there's something we don't know that only kasumi knows.

The Georgian Dynasties intermarried with the Rurikids and one of the Georgian Dynasties is Chosronids which is a cadet of the Sassanid Dynasty, the Romanovs could claim that they are descendants of the Sassanids (even if they are not) because of that.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

How about the princely states system for the Philippines on the British Raj model if Britain seizes the Philippines? With Luzon/Selurong, Madyas/Visayas, Maguindanao, Sulu-Sabah, Brunei, Sarawak and Malacca as the 'Princely states', British Philippines could evolve into a smaller version of India. Ditto if the Dutch acquired the Philippines, and another ditto if Germany acquired it.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

British and Dutch highly likely, Germany...eh...I'm kind of iffy on that...to be fair, I do not know how the German system would play out, but the Dutch could reform it in such a way that, if they hold on to the East Indies, it would follow a Princely State format, could lead to great Southeast Asian Federation down the road.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

British and Dutch highly likely, Germany...eh...I'm kind of iffy on that...to be fair, I do not know how the German system would play out, but the Dutch could reform it in such a way that, if they hold on to the East Indies, it would follow a Princely State format, could lead to great Southeast Asian Federation down the road.

Or just an expanded Indonesia. The Dutch would definitely need a ton of settlers just to expand into the Philippines since they might run in danger of having their colonies seized by Britain. If the Dutch do acquire the Philippines from Spain, they could very well integrate it into their East Indies colonies and make it into uber-Indonesia, but without West Papua in which they would trade it to Britain in exchange for some more territories in British Malaya.

I could also introduce the concept of a Western Rite Orthodoxy since that project originally was planned out in Great Britain but fell apart due to a lack of funds. I wonder if the Pestelist regime could somehow sponsor the Western Rite Orthodoxy project in exchange for allowing the Greek Catholic Church to function in Russia, though that may also spell a quick and painless death for the Pestelist reforms. Still, I'm aiming for Western Rite Orthodoxy to be popular in either the Netherlands, Britain, or Hungary. Why Hungary? You'll find out in a bit.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

That could very well be arranged for the British to do, could also help integrate Papua into Australia, if need be.

As for Western Rite Orthodoxy, not familiar with religion, so that ones on you.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Of course Papua would be integrated with Australia. They're probably gonna need it, unless of course New Zealand gets integrated as well.

 

[Razgriz 2K9]

Or go with both, ala Kaiserreich. A united Australasian Federation would serve as a stronger Australia TTL, and one that could handle any threats to British interests.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Or go with both, ala Kaiserreich. A united Australasian Federation would serve as a stronger Australia TTL, and one that could handle any threats to British interests.

True, but that may require a successful Eureka Rebellion which could also spell some dire consequences for the Dutch. Maybe an Australasian conquest of the Philippines from Spain to deter the Prussians (later the Germans) from snatching the islands. I'm not sure how a Eurekan Rebellion would result in a better, stronger Australia but it's worth a try. On the other hand, which year should Germany unify? 1848 or 1871?

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

In between 1830 and 1840, Europe’s focus shifted towards the rebellious territories of the Ottoman Empire, or more precisely, the Egyptian Khedive which could very well become independent. With Muhammad Ali Pasha consolidating his power as the Khedive in Cairo, the Egyptian state might be in a position to replace the Ottoman Empire as the major Islamic empire in the Muslim world, now that the Mughal Empire had become divided and some territories were under the control of the British East India Company. Earlier in 1831, Pavel Pestel had amended his Manifesto with regards to Russia’s foreign affairs in Europe. While they would remain neutral in Europe, they were free to expand elsewhere, albeit in limited numbers. However in 1835, a different kind of conflict would arise. Not in Europe or Asia, but in the New World.

Texan revolutionaries had revolted against the Mexican government primarily on issues of religion and immigration. As early as 1830, Texans from Mexico had settled in said territory but most of the soldiers deployed in Texan territory were convicts who faced a not-so spotty prospect of either a stint in the Mexican Army or a lengthy prison term. Coupled with the mainly Protestant migrants from the United States who were offended by Mexico’s lack of religious freedom in which all migrants are to swear a loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church. Some Mexicans were inspired by what was happening in Russia, particularly Sam Houston’s fascination of Pestel’s works. There was only one obstacle: Texas was already a republic, so there was no need for a Pestelist reformation project inside. However, the Mexican state was in dire need of reform, particularly in the economical sector since it was financially broke from its war with Spain. Mexico would play a vital role in the political landscape of the New World, starting with the Texan War of Independence, and ultimately the Mexican-American War. {1}

Uniate Project, a Conception:

On July 23rd, 1837, Pestel and Constantine had met up with the leaders of the Russian Orthodox Holy Synod and the outlawed clergy from the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church on matters of religious freedom. Before this historic meeting between these two mutually hostile religious groups occurred, the Greek Catholic faith was disbanded during Catherine the Great’s reign. Those Uniates who functioned in what is currently Polish territory were lucky not to have witnessed a pogrom incited by outraged Russian Orthodox Christians against the Ukrainian Uniates in Kiev on a warm, summer day back in 1836. The Roman Catholic clergy who were based in Vilnius, Lithuania were also present in St. Petersburg although Muraviev wasn’t too pleased with their presence. It was there that Pestel had re-negotiated with the Christian leaders on what to do with the numerous non-Orthodox Christians living within the borders of the Russian Empire. Since the Greek Catholic faith had been entrenched in the western parts of the Ukraine, Pestel had proposed a congregation that would not only enter a communion with the Russian Orthodox Church, but would be allowed to keep their Western Rite. Thus the concept of a Western Rite Orthodoxy, or the ‘Occidental’ Orthodox Uniate project had begun. However, the real catalyst for such project kicked off in Great Britain, out of all places.

In 1840, an Anglican theologian named William Palmer had sought recognition for the Anglican intercommunion with the Russian Orthodox Church. Pestel being the opportunistic adventurer he truly is, jumped at the chance of realizing his dream of a Western Rite Orthodoxy but because of certain difficulties, Patriarch Filaret, Metropolitan of Moscow had intervened against both Palmer and Pestel and the idea of a Western Rite Orthodoxy had apparently died prematurely. It was not until another meeting between Palmer and the Russian Orthodox clergy that Muraviev had confided in Filaret about Pestel’s desire to create a ‘reverse Uniate’ congregation that would counter the influence of the Greek Catholics. For one thing, the Greek Catholic clergy were very literate and very educated while the Russian Orthodox clergy were sorely illiterate. Moreover, Pestel’s emphasis on an educated populace was another clause of his Manifesto although he wrote about such subject on his book, Literacy in the New Russia, published in 1850. Undeterred, Filaret forbade Pestel from pursuing such a radical project that could compromise the unity of the Orthodox Church. Frustrated by the Metropolitan’s intervention, Pestel had at one point thought of replacing the current Metropolitan with a more, compliant successor but the Holy Synod was a council of Orthodox Christian leaders. It meant that Pestel cannot take on the entire Holy Synod and win without suffering a very serious setback, which would have spelled the doom for his experiment. Dejected, Pestel agreed to suspend his Western Rite project indefinitely. Little did Pestel and the Metropolitan of Moscow knew, someone else on their own initiative would take up the Western Rite project. {2}

Spring of Nations – Pestelism’s First Major Test:

In 1848, Europe had broken out into a series of revolutions as autocratic monarchies feared for their reigns. Although the origins were unclear, a couple of problems were listed as the catalyst for the 1848 revolution. This event would become known as Pavel Pestel’s first major test of his ideology, with regards to Russian neutrality in Europe’s affairs. Unemployment had risen in Europe as jobs were often scarce for guilds, with consumer goods cheaply manufactured in factories. Most important of all, the socio-political awakening of the working class had prompted figures such as Karl Marx and Frederich Engels to rise into occasion, with the Communist Manifesto being published while these German leftists were in London. In Russia, Pestel watched the events in Europe with cautious optimism, although he had already condemned the Communist Manifesto as too radical, even for his own taste. Marx on the other hand had long known in the Communist Manifesto that only a smaller, but more industrialized state would become a full fledged socialist state and that periphery states like Russia and then-Qing China would not be a perfect role model. However, when the revolution moved on towards the cities, it soon became a national matter when Italy had risen up in revolt, or rather, the Sicilian states which were under Bourbon rule when the revolution broke out.

In Germany, the 1848 Revolution was a golden opportunity for an earlier unification. Frederick Wilhelm of Prussia had promised to merge Prussia into the new German state. Of course, Frederick Wilhelm was sympathetic to Germany’s unification and had actually thought about taking the crown as the new Kaiser of Germany. He already knew of Tsarist Russia’s stance on the 1848 revolution, thanks to his sister Charlotte who had by now, played an active role in enhancing Russia’s relationship with Prussia. As the German masses had demanded for more rights, and representation in the National Assembly, Otto von Bismarck and the Prussian Junkers felt threatened by Frederick Wilhelm’s liberal stance and feared for their loss of privileges and rights that they searched for a potential replacement in Frederick Wilhelm’s brother, also named Wilhelm. However, Wilhelm had some reservations on how to respond when the German National Assembly had also offered him the same crown his older brother wanted to take. On the other hand, several rebellions also broke out in other German states, particularly in Saxony where the famed pianist Richard Wagner was a major supporter of the democratic republican movement, which was vying for the creation of the provisional government there. Wagner was a fervent admirer of Pestel’s radical republicanism and has studied most of his works, particularly the Decembrist Manifesto. Numerous additional uprisings had finally broken out by late March of 1848, with the German nobility unsure of what to do next. However, one nation in Europe would occupy the biggest headlines with the Spring of Nations: Hungary.

Demonstrations broke out in Budapest on March 15th, 1848 as numerous other insurrections broke out throughout the Hungarian domains. Austrian Emperor Franz Josef repeatedly asked for assistance from Constantine and Muraviev for help, despite Pestel’s calls for Russian neutrality in the Spring of Nations. Constantine himself ignored Franz Josef’s pleas for help as he sent a letter to his brother in law, the current King Frederick Wilhelm of Prussia about the Austrian Emperor’s complaints. Conversely, it was Wilhelm who advised Constantine to let the Austrian Empire collapse under its own feet, just so he can convince Bismarck to persuade Frederick Wilhelm to take the crown. At the same time, Frederick Wilhelm had summoned the National Assembly members on whether or not Prussia should help Hungary regain her freedom from Austria. Bismarck was rather appalled by his suggestion of breaking the Austrian Empire just to make his dream of a German unification come true. At the same time, the Catholic representatives from the Rhineland and Bavaria were eager to include or at least turn Austria into a vassal state with a potential for annexation down the line. In Bavaria, King Ludwig I was embroiled in the middle of a scandal involving a dancer named Lola Montez, resulting in his abdication and the ascension of his son Maximillion II. When Maximillion II took the throne, he also called for the annexation of Austria or alternatively, he called for a South German Federation which would consist of the Catholic German lands united under either his own rule or the Austrians. As for the Hungarians themselves, a democratic movement led by a journalist turned leader named Lajos Kossuth had organized the embryo of a provisional government and contemplated about declaring Hungary independent from Austria’s rule. He had a good reason to feel optimistic: Franz Josef’s pleas for the Russians to intervene fell on deaf ears, largely because of Russia’s neutrality. Moreover, the Russians themselves were in the middle of their economic modernization and feared a potential outburst of anger if the process of industrialization was interrupted by events in Europe. Instead, it was the Prussians who would help the Hungarian revolutionaries gain their freedom, with Frederick Wilhelm issuing an order for a general mobilization of the Prussian reserves for a possible expedition into Hungary. As his position became more secure, he received a letter from Kossuth, requesting for Prussian recognition of an independent Hungary with Transylvania as part of the bigger Hungarian state. When Josip Jelacic had arrived in Budapest with an unknown amount of soldiers under his command, the Hungarians were forced to appeal for help from other potential allies.

On July 30th, 1848, the Prussian Army crossed the border through Bohemia and into northern Hungary in support of the Hungarian revolutionaries and fought against the Hapsburg forces. Pressburg was secured by Prussian soldiers deployed from Saxony, who also joined the expedition to demonstrate their commitment to German unification with Prussia in charge. Six days later, another Prussian Army stationed in Silesia had joined their comrades in Pressburg and were on their way into Budapest when an unexpected help arrived for the Hungarian revolutionaries: Polish forces from Congress Poland under Ludwik Mieroslawski who formed a national army and marched from across their border with Austrian Galicia in an attempt to annex said territory. Marching from the Carpathian Mountains, the Polish national army met up with the Prussians in Pressburg and proceeded towards Budapest. As soon as Mieroslawski’s army met up with Jelacic’s forces inside the Hungarian capital, a fierce battle for the control of the city began. By noon, Jelacic’s infantry division was cornered by Friedrich August’s reinforcements but the Prussian offensive was repulsed by the Croat forces with heavy casualties. Even Polish reinforcements who bravely held the Prussian line against the Croats also suffered casualties as well, as 28% of the Polish Army was listed as killed in action.

Franz Josef was outraged when he heard of the Prussian intervention in Hungary and hurriedly mobilized the rest of the Austrian Army, even though Jelacic had already mobilized the Croatian reserves of the Hapsburg forces to suppress the Hungarian revolution. By the time the Austrian forces arrived in Budapest on August 14th, 1849, the Hungarians were already bolstered by the Prussian and Polish reinforcements who were egged on by Frederick Wilhelm and Czartoryski respectively to help Hungary break free from the Hapsburg yoke. In Berlin however, Bismarck had another motive with Prussia’s aid to the Hungarians. He wanted to create a potential bloc, consisting of a united German state, allied with the Polish and Hungarian kingdoms in an effort to stem the tide of Russian Pestelism from reaching into Europe, despite Russia’s neutrality. While the Hohenzollerns were actually friendly towards the Romanovs, Bismarck did not trust the Russians on their true motives. As he wrote on his diary, the Russians cannot be allowed to grow much longer or Europe itself would fall under another catastrophe in Pestel’s radical republicanism. He thereby hoped for Russia to be pushed out of Europe and into Asia, where Pestelism could either flourish among older Asiatic kingdoms or wither on the vine. Unfortunately for Bismarck, the other Junkers were eager to preserve their current alliance with Russia since another Russo-German War could have devastating consequences. With Bismarck’s plan for isolating Russia complete, not only would Germany be free from having to face the Russian colossus, but would also be in position to succeed where both Ducal Prussia and the Holy Roman Empire had failed. Bismarck’s plans were not without problems however, as one man became the vocal point for the pro-Romanov faction centered on Harry von Arnim. As a staunch opponent of Bismarck, Arnim had long debated on the dangers of provoking Russia into conflict and advocated a serious alliance that can hopefully challenge Great Britain’s position around the world. Arnim’s position on the Hungarian revolution soon became more anti-Hapsburg but had desired for a non-Hapsburg prince as ruler of Hungary.

Hungarian cavalry troops retaking a town from the Austrian Army.

1850 – The Dust Settles on the New Europe:

The remaining months between September and December of 1849 were marked by Hungarian successes and failures in securing their independence from the Austrian Empire. Numerous revolts broke out in Bohemia by October 21st of 1849 as the Austrians were helpless and powerless before such sporadic rebellions. As the reactionary monarchs realized that Pestel would not budge on his neutral stance, they soon made plans to retain their throne by whatever means necessary. Austria was one of the few anti-liberal states to form a new conservative bloc, with Spain, Portugal, Bourbon France, and Austria as the founding members. Kossuth’s new government was recognized by Prussia, with Russia following suit in December 7th, 1849, the 24th anniversary of the Decembrist Revolution and Pestel’s first rise to prominence. The only thing left to do was to decide on who should reign as the King of Hungary who was definitely not a Hapsburg. In 1850 during an assembly in Budapest, three candidates were selected from among 19 potential candidates for Hungary’s throne: Prince August, Duke of Dalarna, Grand Duke Mikhail Constantinovich and Prince Charles of Prussia. Queen Victoria of Great Britain had at some point proposed for Carl, 3rd Prince of Leiningen as King of Hungary, though more members of the Hungarian parliament had gravitated towards selecting Grand Duke Mikhail Constantinovich on the grounds that Hungary owed its independence to Russia’s inaction when Franz Josef appealed for help to Constantine. In a landslide victory in favor of Mikhail, he was crowned as King Miklos I Romanov of Hungary, though there was one problem: Hungary’s rulers were required to become Catholics and Mikhail was an Orthodox Christian. To placate nearly everyone present in Budapest, Mikhail or Miklos as he was called, promised to respect the Roman Catholic faith while maintaining his Orthodox faith. At the same time, Pestel’s Western Rite Orthodoxy project was proposed once again, this time by Muraviev who had by now gone behind Pestel’s back and showed up in Budapest. On April of 1850, Pestel was furious after hearing a report on Muraviev’s presence in Budapest and had gotten Constantine’s approval for Muraviev to return home. When Muraviev returned on May 24th, Pestel and Muraviev had gotten into their argument. It was then that Muraviev had personally rejected Pestel’s aims for a republican state and asked for his resignation. Pestel in turn, rebuked Muraviev for jeopardizing Russia’s neutrality by supporting Mikhail’s candidancy for Hungary’s throne. As the argument had gone on for a while longer, Sergei Trubetskoy had announced his resignation as Prime Minister. A snap election was called in all levels of the Duma as Pestel, Muraviev and a fellow Decembrist named Kondraty Ryleyev ran for the campaign as the next Prime Minister.

Kondraty Ryleyev, a fellow Decembrist who participated alongside Pestel and Muraviev in St. Petersburg when Constantine had cautiously and reluctantly accepted the Tsarist crown.

Both Hungary and Russia would fall into their own internal crisis as a result of Muraviev’s own folly. After yet another days worth of elections, Ryleyev was chosen as Russia’s second Prime Minister. This time, Pestel and Muraviev had reconciled over their differences but their argument would sow the seed for Pestel’s predicted ‘civil war’. With Ryleyev’s term as Prime Minister set to begin, he would start the real work on a complete overhaul of Russia’s political structure. At the same time, Pestel had increasingly played a role as the real man in power, with Ryleyev and Constantine as his front men, in a similar manner to Bismarck but a lot more subtle. As for Mikhail/Miklos I Romanov, the Hungarian populace had been reluctant to accept a Russian prince as their king, but would keep an eye on how he reigned.

----

{1} The Mexican-American War may go on as in OTL, but there would be a Mexican economic recovery ITTL. I'll explain later on.
{2} Western Rite Orthodoxy could either flourish ot shrivel, with the Greek Catholics emigrating elsewhere from Russia and Poland and maybe into Canada. More explanation will be made.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Has anyone read Heart of Iron by Ekaterina Sedia? Submarine fleets, airships, and an alliance with Taiping China, perhaps?

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Has anyone read Heart of Iron by Ekaterina Sedia? Submarine fleets, airships, and an alliance with Taiping China, perhaps?

Not yet, but I've got to look for that book. Taiping China would actually be in a lot worse shape than Qing China.

 

[Lord Grattan]

Good updates MB. You detailed the unfolding "Spring of Nations" beautifully. I wish that you hadn't You leapt through the 1830s and early '40s awfully quick, I do hope that as the TL progresses you'll add some details about those years.

 

[Lord Grattan]

Not yet, but I've got to look for that book. Taiping China would actually be in a lot worse shape than Qing China.

Stick w/the Qing; keep the people from becoming so dependent on opium and find a way to make the Anglo-Chinese relationship less destructive; maybe bring the Americans into the picture - thus stopping Russian expansion into the Hēilóng Jiāng basin.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Not yet, but I've got to look for that book. Taiping China would actually be in a lot worse shape than Qing China.

It's not the best alternate history, but as a novel it's fairly entertaining and I'm glad that its steampunk is somewhat subtle and not full-on "goggles and gears and pith helmets." Its descriptions of Decembrist Russia is somewhat sparse, but may be helpful for world-building. Basically it describes Constantine as a big Anglophile and a love for all things British in his court, while Nicholas is a paranoid xenophobe who has a special police. Throughout the story Russia is described as having to choose between Europe and Asia, and thus between alliance with the British Empire or Qing China. I haven't gotten far enough, but I do know the Taiping win later on.