Once Upon a December: A Different Decembrist Russia

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I'm too familiar with the settlement of South Africa. Considering that that region was originally a Dutch colony before passing to Great Britain, they probably attempted to settle by sending in very poor people to help bolster the numbers, especially in the east where they could consolidate and defend against the Xhosa Confederacy. A similar manner can be done, with the heaviest concentration being in the Mindanao to defend against the Moros.

I do not know how the industrial structure works in Great Britain to say if it would compare to Germany, although I can confidently say it would not be as much with the Dutch (smaller size in the homelands) and Swedes (smaller population)

...though it could be possible to a limited extent with the latter two.
 
So a heavy concentration of settlers would be needed in Mindanao. I'm guessing that the British or the Germans could send some very poor folks from their home country to settle in Mindanao while there could be some settlement in Luzon and Visayas, albeit in very limited numbers.
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I wouldn't count out the Dutch either should they get their hands on the Philippines, even though their population in the home land is small (It was a little over 5 million in 1900) I would not be surprised if there were some Dutch who decides to move up from the more populous East Indies (which although by 1930, had 60 million, roughly 10 times that of the Netherlands in the same period, would probably account for a smaller, yet similar size by 1900)

Sweden, your other choice would be very hard to do, with a population of a similar size to the Dutch Homeland (by 1905 it was 7 million)
 
I wouldn't count out the Dutch either should they get their hands on the Philippines, even though their population in the home land is small (It was a little over 5 million in 1900) I would not be surprised if there were some Dutch who decides to move up from the more populous East Indies (which although by 1930, had 60 million, roughly 10 times that of the Netherlands in the same period, would probably account for a smaller, yet similar size by 1900)

Sweden, your other choice would be very hard to do, with a population of a similar size to the Dutch Homeland (by 1905 it was 7 million)

Oh, but on the contrary the Swedes had their own style of industrial revolution going on. If the Swedes could keep their union with Norway while promoting Scandinavianism with Denmark, they could establish a couple of colonies on the way. The key should be Sweden's active role in Europe. On the other hand, why would the Dutch move from the more populous East Indies to the Philippines?
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Well that's a good question, the Dutch were practically a minority within the East Indies, the bulk of the population in Indonesia were the natives that they had under their rule since the 17th century when they were the Dutch East India Company. I'm not saying they should relocate their, but perhaps send in some of the Dutch and some of the indiginous peoples already living in the East Indies to at least extend the Dutch colonial institutions into the Philippines.
 
Well that's a good question, the Dutch were practically a minority within the East Indies, the bulk of the population in Indonesia were the natives that they had under their rule since the 17th century when they were the Dutch East India Company. I'm not saying they should relocate their, but perhaps send in some of the Dutch and some of the indiginous peoples already living in the East Indies to at least extend the Dutch colonial institutions into the Philippines.

When there might be a possibility of a balkanized Dutch East Indies, could they integrate some of the remaining islands with a Dutch Philippines? I mean, they could exchange Java Island for British Malaya. Would that work? Having indigenous Indonesians sent to the Philippines would work, except that they're going to be a majority Muslim population.
 
Since Constantine’s coronation as Tsar of Russia, there has been a major set of negotiations between the Imperial Family and the Decembrist revolutionaries had started in the Winter Palace. Starting on January 1st, 1826, Constantine formally declared Poland independent from the Russian Empire but couldn’t appoint the heir yet, as most of his children were too young. As a result, Pestel turned to a famous Polish statesman, Adam Jerzy Czartoryski for help. Czartoryski had been vying for the job of namiestnik, or a viceroy of the resurrected Kingdom of Poland though Constantine was wary of appointing a prominent nationalist as leader of Congress Poland, as the Russians tend to call their former Polish province. In an agreement between Muraviev and Czartoryski, they allowed him to become a viceroy until a suitable heir from among Constantine’s children would be chosen. In what became known as the Ladoga Agreement, signed between the two parties, the Poles were free to conduct their business as usual while the Russians would protect Poland from external and internal threats. The Ladoga Agreement would be one of many agreements that would be written with the help of Pestel and Muraviev, though Constantine gave his blessing as well. The next agreement to be signed was in January 7th, 1826, in what soon to become known as the Christmas Agreement in the Peterhof Palace. This agreement was the main vocal point between the Imperial Family and the Decembrist revolutionaries. In this agreement, there are several main points that were written by both Constantine and Muraviev. Pestel was told not to write any of his ideas on the parchment by Muraviev himself, since he wanted to stabilize the Tsar’s power while the self-declared reformers would go on and enact their desired changes. These are:

- The Tsar of Russia would serve as a spiritual, symbolical and national authority of the Russian people while a few selected ministers would rule in his name. However, none of the selected ministers should abuse their position for any motives detrimental to the country’s welfare.

- A constitution would be written, giving details about the Tsar’s roles, as well as establishments of the Veche (legislative body), the Sobor (judicial body) and the Duma (executive body), and a Privy Council of some sort. In addition, the constitution would be influenced by two Polish constitutions, one that Czartoryski had written and the other will be the May 3, 1791 Constitution.

- The rights and duties of all subjects, regardless of their class, would be enshrined in the constitution. The constitution will be written by selected intellectuals from all over the Russian Empire, with the reformers centered on Pavel Pestel and Nikita Muraviev providing the main set of ideas.

- A general election to take place in 1827 to select the Empire’s first prime minister. Another election which would also occur in the same year will select the members of the Lower Duma, as well as the Sobor and the Veche. Voting would be open to the general populace, though they were not required to vote for a Sobor or Veche candidate mainly because the selected members of the Lower Duma will vote instead.

- Finally, the Privy Council would consist of selected individuals who demonstrated excellent work ethic in the Tsar’s civil service. Because the Supreme Privy Council was abolished in 1730, it would be on Muraviev’s initiative to revive the Privy Council and restore its function under the liberal minded Constantine’s guidance.

For Constantine, the Privy Council was what his successors need in order to steer their empire in the right direction. Since its abolition, the autocratic nature of Tsarist Russia had become more entrenched. Pugachev’s Rebellion had been crushed by Catherine’s loyal armies, though their demands for alleviating the peasants’ hard lives were sacrificed to satisfy the nobility. It was the normal routine in Tsarist Russia, until the ascension of Constantine into the throne. With Constantine on the throne, Pestel and Muraviev had formally campaigned against each other for the coveted spot of Prime Minister in 1827. For the first time in Russia’s history, the Russian people are entrusted with a decision to choose any person they wanted as a representative. By June of 1827, 110 Lower Duma representatives were elected in a runoff which captivated the public audience in all of Europe, though Great Britain and the Bourbon regime in France feared another Bonapartist or revolutionary regime taking place in such a huge nation as Russia. However, it was only the beginning of a new chapter. Europe would no longer turn back the clock.

Further Actions inside the Russian Empire:

By May of 1828, Pestel had accomplished half of his goals for Russia’s modernization. It was largely thanks to the marriage between Charlotte of Prussia and Constantine that her brother, Wilhelm of Prussia for whom he and a future promising politician named Otto von Bismarck would play a vital role in centralizing the Prussian government before proceeding to incorporate the rest of the German states. As a young military officer, Wilhelm of Prussia had fought against Napoleon alongside the Russian Army and rumors of his presence when the tragic Nicholas met his untimely end. From 1828 onwards, Prussian and Russian officials collaborated on certain sensitive issues, mainly with regards to Poland. On June 29th, 1828, the Poles who lived in Prussia were requested to evacuate into the independent Polish state set up by Russia. Although the Poles would have trouble with the living space inside the former Congress Poland, their desire for a bigger Polish state would come true rather soon.

In September, Pestel met up with Muraviev, Constantine and King Frederick Wilhelm of Prussia in St. Petersburg with regards to additional discussions on the proposed constitutions of Russia and Prussia. Unlike Pestel and Constantine, Frederick Wilhelm had some reservations and concerns for Pestel’s reforms. His main reason, despite his Romanticist leanings, was that the proposed Russian constitution would contain excess influence from the French Enlightenment. Also attending the September meeting was Polish leader Czartoryski, who brought in his proposed constitution of Poland and a copy of the original May 37d, 1791 constitution. Upon further study of the two Polish constitutions, Muraviev and Frederick Wilhelm proposed to include some of the aspects of the Polish constitution into the Russian and Prussian version, though the Prussian King also wanted to add a clause, limiting the power of the Prussian Junker mobility. There was one problem with adopting certain features of the Polish constitution into the Russian version, which concerned the official religion of the empire. Russia is home to the Orthodox Christian, Jewish, Buddhist and Muslim faiths thanks to numerous non-Russian minorities living within the Russian Empire. It was also thanks to the incorporation of Lithuania into the Russian Empire that Catholicism had made its presence known in the predominantly Orthodox state. To counter this problem, Pestel proposed to recognize the Catholic faith as one of the recognized faiths in Russia but was voted down by Muraviev and Constantine, due to Catholicism’s terrible past dating from 1612. Another issue facing the leaders present was the existence of the Greek Catholic Uniate faith, which complicated their discussion with regards to whether or not it should be recognized. It was not until Frederick Wilhelm proposed to not only recognize the Greek Catholic faith, but to create a mirror version, with Protestant or Catholic congregations entering a communion with the Russian Orthodox Church. Constantine however, refused to do so, fearing a potential backlash from the very same peasantry they needed for support in abolishing serfdom. However, the talk of creating a Western Rite Orthodoxy would not take off until later on in the 1840s.

The last meeting between Constantine, Muraviev and Pestel on Russia’s behalf and Frederick Wilhelm on Prussia’s behalf occurred on the anniversary of Constantine’s coronation. It was said that Constantine and Muraviev had drafted the final ukase on the abolition of serfdom and Pestel had arrived in St. Petersburg to read and edit the proclamation. Upon the completion of the proclamation, it had to undergo a referendum in the Lower Duma, which the elected members voted overwhelmingly in favor of its implementation. The Proclamation on the Abolition of Serfdom also had to pass through the Upper Duma, Veche and Sobor, where only two members of the Veche and one member of the Sobor voted against the proclamation itself. On December 8th, 1828, the Proclamation was made public. Serfdom was abolished and the peasants are free to live anywhere. Most of Russia’s peasantry flocked to the cities for a better life, although Constantine wanted the peasants to move into Siberia as pioneers in which they could build new settlements along the borders with the Central Asian khanates. Muraviev agreed with Pestel’s approach on the peasantry, although there was always the danger of losing migrants into Siberia. Of course, Siberia has long been notorious with penal sentences and hard labor.

Sergei Trubetskoy played a pivotal role in passing down a series of modernization laws designed to propel the Russian Empire into the modern age, though he always asked Muraviev, Pestel and Speransky, as the Decembrist Trio became known in contemporary circles. Starting in 1830, the Industrial Revolution had reached its climax as Great Britain proved itself capable of providing an example to the rest of the world in its industrialization efforts. As early as 1823, British companies operating in Russia were interested in its natural resources for extraction and exportation. To prevent Siberia’s mineral resources from being used by foreign powers, Constantine and Trubetskoy met up once again with Pestel and Muraviev in February of 1830 to discuss the plan for Russia’s industrialization. Muraviev proposed an economical agreement with Great Britain through n establishment of free trade and industrialization programs designed to increase trade between the two countries. In what was to become the Muraviev-Melbourne Agreement of 1830, the Russian and British Empires formalized their own trade agreements, and allowed each other’s companies to set up operation within their territories. A similar agreement was signed between Britain, Prussia and Poland in May of 1830, though King William IV of the United Kingdom was wary of allowing Russia too much economical clout in the world. Luckily, Pestel’s avocation of neutrality in Europe’s affairs has saved Europe from being dominated by Russia.

Industrialization and Change in Europe:

As early as 1830, the Belgians under the United Kingdom of the Netherlands were the first continental European nation to industrialize, followed by the French, the German states and the Swedes. Industrialization had improved the welfare of the ordinary people. Inspired by the Pestelist reforms in Russia, regimes not only in Prussia, but even in the dual Kingdom of Sweden-Norway were in favor of implementing the Muravievist variant of the Pestelist reforms that would preserve the monarchy while giving more powers to their parliament. However, one certain influence on the Pestelist model which all European nations except for the French agreed on, was the need to curb excess freedom which could result in near-anarchy.

Sweden-Norway provided the example on how to achieve industrialization efforts for nations situated near the Arctic Circle (Russia being the prime example). A proto-industrialization of the countryside which could be devoted to manufacturing consumer goods in the winter time, while the agricultural revolution in Sweden-Norway would focus on producing foodstuffs in the summer time. Because Pestel was in Russia supervising the grand opening of the first Russian textiles factory in Tver’ on July 22nd, 1830, Grand Duke Mikhail Pavlovich was sent to Sweden to learn about their style of a mixed agricultural-industrial movements in tandem. Mikhail was fascinated at how peasants in Scandinavia could switch their work depending on the seasonal cycle. He realized its vast potential for its implementation in Siberia and sent his report back to his brother, Constantine. With Sweden-Norway’s example of the agricultural-industrial tandem a good model for Russia to follow, Great Britain’s model was suited for the rest of Europe since they didn’t have nasty Arctic like weather.

In the Ottoman Empire, the Tanzimat period was ushered just after their disastrous defeat at the hands of the Greek revolutionaries in their war of independence. Although Sultan Mahmud II had managed to integrate the non-Muslim peoples a lot closer into the Ottoman Empire through the Tanzimat reforms, it also resulted in increasing nationalist sentiment on the part of the Arabs, Kurds and primarily the Jews who heard about Pestel’s plan to create a Jewish homeland but on an unspecified location. With Muhammad Ali’s rebellion in Egypt breaking out in 1831, all European nations kept a close eye on what the end result for the Egyptian rebellion against the Turks would become. There are several reasons and motives for each European nation to either support the Turks or the Egyptians:

- Great Britain at first had initially supported Muhammad Ali and his ‘empire’ in Egypt but soon realized the potential danger of the weakened Ottoman Empire as an unwanted attraction for Russia to gain a foothold in the Middle East. This was further complicated by Pestel’s plans to carve out a Jewish state in any territories of the Ottoman Empire it would acquire.

- France too, had supported the pasha but also changed its mind like what the British did. The French had feared of a Pestelist expansion into the Middle East and the potential powder keg it could light on the possible destruction of the Ottoman Empire.

- Austria at first was neutral in the Ottoman-Egyptian conflict, but soon thought about propping up the weakened Ottoman Empire as a useful buffer against Russia, which was firmly allied with Austria’s rival, Prussia.

- Russia under Constantine and the Decembrists were well aware of their opportunity to destroy the Ottoman Empire when the Egyptian revolt occurred, but didn’t support any side as to maintain Pestel’s neutral stance on any conflicts. It was not until in March of 1831 that Pestel had made amendments to his own Manifesto, which called for neutrality in Europe’s affairs, but would play an active role in helping the Asian nations modernize to withstand Western colonial pressure.

In the same month that Pestel had edited his Manifesto, Muraviev had contemplated about spreading Pestelism into Muhammad Ali Pasha’s Egyptian ‘empire’, possibly creating a North African ally from which he could prod the Albanian-born Egyptian Khedive to take control of the Arabian Peninsula, with a potential Jewish homeland in the former Trebizond territory. With plans for a Jewish homeland in Anatolia drafted by Pestel, Trubetskoy had also joined in the planning stages for the Ottoman Empire’s dissolution by promoting the creation of a Russian backed Kurdish state, from which he could use it as a launching pad for the spread of Pestelism into Persia, Afghanistan and potentially even India and China but his ambitions were met with serious opposition from Muraviev, who only wanted to secure Pestelism as a stable ideology within Russia’s borders before going off on a wild expedition in Asia. Now with Pestel’s plans for the Ottoman Empire going underway, there is no telling of when the invasion would happen, but they need a diversion for their plan to succeed.
 
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Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I want to note an error, Belgium wasn't yet independent until October of 1830 OTL, and I don't think there was a mention of an independent Belgian state (it was still a part of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands)

But I am very interested in how Petelist Russia will deal with the Ottoman Empire, bringing Egypt into its Sphere of Influence is a start, but is Europe (or any nation at the time) even ready for an independent Jewish homeland?
 
Where else could the Jews settle, with all the current unpleasantness in the Russian Empire? Also, expect a lot of 'benevolent assimilation' like policies floating arond Russia, Prussia, and even the Netherlands.
 
On the other hand, I'm also thinking of an Egypt-dominated Middle East, which could have potential butterflies down the road. As for the Philippines sweepstakes, I've decided to narrow it down to maybe the Netherlands, Britain and Germany. Sweden could be content with buying the Congo instead of Belgium if it had a chance. After all, I'm thinking of maybe expanding on the pan-Scandinavian movement between Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Come to think of it, th Danes might have mor population than Sweden does, right?
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Not really...

Denmark actually has an even smaller population than Sweden and Norway. (By 1905 OTL when Sweden-Norway split, their combined population was 7 million, Denmark's population was only 2.5 million, barely over a third that.) Combining the three Kingdoms in pan-Scandinavianism (aka a United Kingdom of Scandinavia) could bolster the population to a level over that of the Congo's OTL owner Belgium (which also had a population of 7 million in that year as well), but again, it all comes down to bringing Sweden to an active role in foreign affairs.

As for an Egyptian-dominated Middle East, it's certainly possible to do so, but their chance for success is cast into doubt, largely due to the fact that it could potentially overstretch the Khedive State. They have a better shot if they're the catalyst behind Arab Nationalist movements in the Empire than actually taking over the Middle East.
 
subscribed..

How is this going to effect the rise of Socialist Ideology? (or will it even be called that)

How is America going to react?
 
Not really...

Denmark actually has an even smaller population than Sweden and Norway. (By 1905 OTL when Sweden-Norway split, their combined population was 7 million, Denmark's population was only 2.5 million, barely over a third that.) Combining the three Kingdoms in pan-Scandinavianism (aka a United Kingdom of Scandinavia) could bolster the population to a level over that of the Congo's OTL owner Belgium (which also had a population of 7 million in that year as well), but again, it all comes down to bringing Sweden to an active role in foreign affairs.

As for an Egyptian-dominated Middle East, it's certainly possible to do so, but their chance for success is cast into doubt, largely due to the fact that it could potentially overstretch the Khedive State. They have a better shot if they're the catalyst behind Arab Nationalist movements in the Empire than actually taking over the Middle East.

There must be a way to prod Sweden to take an active role in the affairs of the world. I mean, the Spring of Nations can also be a perfect opportunity for Sweden to form the Scandinavian Union like a second run of the Kalmar Union. Of course, Scandinavia could also be a potential rival to Germany/Prussia and Russia, and all it has to do is to ask for the Russians to give Finland back, which Russia would certainly refuse. Then again, there's also Iceland that can join the Union.

Egypt leading the Middle East is doable, although I wonder if they could have a chain of Egyptian-backed Arab states, and getting rid of the Wahhabis would certainly work in the long run since the new Egyptian dominated Middle East would certainly be allies of Russia. (Of course, I'm thinking about having Russia and Egypt as allies) Persia on the other hand, maybe they can be Finlandized. As in they could maintain neutrality while remaining friendly with both Russia and Britain. Ditto with Afghanistan.

How it would affect the rise of Socialism? Well, with Pestelism as the dominant ideology ITTL, socialism might be limited to just intellectuals unless of course, Karl Marx moves elsewhere. Probably the United States or even Austria. Then again, Marx would create his variant of Pestelism except that his version would have a sixth and seventh phase, which would mean transition into socialism and finally into communism. Pestel and Muraviev would actually oppose Marx's addition, because he'd screwed up Pestelism's real manifesto.

America's reaction to the Pestelist Europe (or rather, Russia, Prussia and Poland) would be mild. Then again, pre-communist Tsarist Russia had good relations with the United States, so they might be able to remain close allies unless of course, the Scandinavians prove to be a better ally than the Russians.
 
A Dutch or British Philippines will work if they give Autonomy to Northern Philippines(Luzon) and the Two Sultanates, the rest they can colonize as they want.
 
Yes, but as we have seen so far, anautonomous territory within the Philippines would lead to some separatist conflict.

Yeah, but the non-autonomous areas will be settled from other areas of the British/Dutch Indies, which will make it different and tolerant to those with Autonomous status, the British and Dutch will introduce muslim settlers which will make the population heterogeneous in the non-autonomous areas and half of them will be speaking Malay or Indonesian so it will be different.
 
Yeah, but the non-autonomous areas will be settled from other areas of the British/Dutch Indies, which will make it different and tolerant to those with Autonomous status, the British and Dutch will introduce muslim settlers which will make the population heterogeneous in the non-autonomous areas and half of them will be speaking Malay or Indonesian so it will be different.

So basically, we'd just lower the Christian-Muslim population ratio to some unknown number?
 
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