Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

I'd guess that when speculating about Stalin and the Soviet leadership possible intentions for Anatolia and the parts of the ME that would eventually come under Soviet occupation , that perhaps the mess that OTL was done in the Caucasus. It would be equally or even more useful as possible example of his way to deal with subject territories than anything in Eastern Europe. Also, if the Soviets manage to establish some kind of puppet Turkish state, I think that would be to expect that they would push for that it would be the more bigger and/or politically/economically stable as possible.
Which left me wondering what would be, down the line, the fate of the TL Turkey's Black sea fishing industry and to whom would fall the control of most of the Black Sea fisheries...
 
I'd guess that when speculating about Stalin and the Soviet leadership possible intentions for Anatolia and the parts of the ME that would eventually come under Soviet occupation , that perhaps the mess that OTL was done in the Caucasus. It would be equally or even more useful as possible example of his way to deal with subject territories than anything in Eastern Europe. Also, if the Soviets manage to establish some kind of puppet Turkish state, I think that would be to expect that they would push for that it would be the more bigger and/or politically/economically stable as possible.
Which left me wondering what would be, down the line, the fate of the TL Turkey's Black sea fishing industry and to whom would fall the control of most of the Black Sea fisheries...
I just forgot that depending on how much of Anatolia Stalin takes, the USSR could have direct access to Arab states and the Mediterranean which makes exerting influence easier for the Soviets and I imagine it'll change the dynamics of the region even more.
 
Appendix Allied Air Forces in the Near East January 1st 1944
Hellenic Air Force
  • 10 Bomber Wing
    • 32 Bomber Squadron "Keraunos" (NAA B-25)
    • 33 Bomber Squadron "Lailaps" (NAA B-25)
  • 11 Fighter Wing
    • 21 Fighter Squadron "Theseus" (KEA Ierax)
    • 22 Fighter Squadron "Ierax" (KEA Ierax)
    • 24 Fighter Squadron "Ares" (Supermarine Spitfire)
  • 13 Fighter Wing
    • 12 Fighter Squadron "Leon" (Curtiss P-40)
    • 23 Fighter Squadron "Fantasma" ( Curtiss P-40)
    • 27 Fighter Squadron "Sparta" (KEA Ierax)
  • 14 Fighter Wing
    • 11 Fighter Squadron "Perseus" (Supermarine Spitfire)
    • 13 Fighter Squadron "Keraunos" (Supermarine Spitfire)
    • 25 Fighter Squadron "Aetos" (Curtiss P-40)
    • 30 Fighter Squadron "Drakon" (NAA P-51B)
  • 15 Bomber Wing
    • 14 Bomber Squadron "Panther" (KEA Lynx)
    • 15 Bomber Squadron "Tigris" (KEA Lynx)
    • 31 Bomber Squadron "Velos" (KEA Lynx)
  • 16 Fighter Wing
    • 26 Fighter Squadron "Herakles" (KEA Ierax)
    • 28 Fighter Squadron "Athena" (KEA Ierax)
    • 29 Fighter Squadron "Alepou" (KEA Ierax)
  • 17 Bomber Wing
    • 34 Bomber Squadron "Ajax" (Martin Baltimore)
    • 35 Bomber Squadron "Typhon" (Martin Baltimore)
Aircraft inventory

NAA P-51B: 24
Supermarine Spitfire: 48
Curtiss P-40: 57
KEA Ierax: 129
KEA Lynx: 62
NAA B-25: 26
Martin Baltimore: 34
Total: 379

RAF Near East


No. 30 Squadron RAF (Martin Baltimore)
No. 80 Squadron RAF (Spitfire)
No. 208 Squadron RAF (Spitfire)
No. 244 Squadron RAF (Martin Baltimore)
No. 3 Squadron SAAF (Spitfire)
No. 41 Squadron SAAF (Spitfire)
No. 303 Squadron Polish Air Force (Spitfire)
No. 305 Squadron Polish Air Force (NAA B-25)

Total aircraft: 159

JKRV
  • 31 Grupa
    • 101 Eskadra (Spitfire)
    • 141 Eskadra (Spitfire)
    • 103 Eskadra (forming)
  • 35 Grupa
    • 109 Eskadra (Spitfire)
    • 110 Eskadra (P-40)
    • 104 Eskadra (forming)
  • 36 Grupa
    • 111 Eskadra (P-40)
    • 112 Eskadra (P-40)
    • 142 Eskadra (forming)
  • 63 Grupa
    • 205 Eskadra (Wellington)
    • 206 Eskadra (Martin Baltimore)
    • 207 Eskadra (Martin Baltimore)
Total aircraft: 178

Armee de l'air

Groupe de Chasse I/7 (NAA P-51B)
Groupe de Chasse I/4 (NAA P-51B)
Groupe de Bombardement I/39 (NAA B-25)
Groupe de Bombardement II/39 (Martin Baltimore)
Groupe de Bombardement I/62 (Martin Baltimore)

Total aircraft: 92
 
The RAF Near East forces are surprisingly low. However, if the Axis Near East forces are not significant, then the low numbers may be justified.
What has happened to the Regia Aeronautica squadrons stationed in Near East? Did some of them join the Allies?
 
I just forgot that depending on how much of Anatolia Stalin takes, the USSR could have direct access to Arab states and the Mediterranean which makes exerting influence easier for the Soviets and I imagine it'll change the dynamics of the region even more.
There's no way Stalin would have access to the Med through the Arabic countries because Kurdistan and maybe Assyria would be blocking them unless Turkey assists the USSR in their endeavours in the ME. Or Stalin puppetises Kurdistan and makes it one of their SSRs.
 
There's no way Stalin would have access to the Med through the Arabic countries because Kurdistan and maybe Assyria would be blocking them unless Turkey assists the USSR in their endeavours in the ME. Or Stalin puppetises Kurdistan and makes it one of their SSRs.
Also depends on how much Stalin can influence the Kurds. I could see him advocating for them if it ensures a neutral state at the least.
 
It's been a while since the 'where are they now' chapters but I have a rather inane question that has no bearing on post-war nonsense or petty politics for once. I don't believe it's been asked yet in this thread but given the namesake... what happened to the Monkey specifically? If it's still alive it must be fairly old by now... Where would the gardener have gone if there is no more monarchy? Has the Greek palace been taken over by monkeys while everyone was looking away?

More pressingly, has it killed anyone? Lawrence's mechanical difficulties came around for Alexander as I recall... is there a Barbary Macaque stalking him around Kurdistan in turn?

I started asking this as a joke but now I am actually curious if this has been answered anywhere...
 
The RAF Near East forces are surprisingly low. However, if the Axis Near East forces are not significant, then the low numbers may be justified.
What has happened to the Regia Aeronautica squadrons stationed in Near East? Did some of them join the Allies?

The forces of the RAF Mediterranean Air Command are not listed even though the are flying missions in Anatolia and the Balkans, since their primary focus and most of their bases are in Italy. Similarly the 15th Air Force has not been listed even though a high proportion of its missions are in the Balkans against the Romanian air fields, one of the reasons the French and Greeks are flying increasing numbers of Mustangs is that they are often flying escort missions to Ploesti.

All this taken into account, the four Allied Air forces are counting 808 combat aircraft, the Soviet VVS has another 237 in the Caucasus. That's about 3 times as many as the Axis have available in Macedonia and Anatolia...

Some Italians have joined the Allies but it was rather more difficult for Regia Aeronautica units in the Balkans to switch over than it was for army units at the front to do so..
 
Also depends on how much Stalin can influence the Kurds. I could see him advocating for them if it ensures a neutral state at the least.
Tbf my guess is that the Kurds would be Western allied considering the Arabs and Turkey would be antagonistic at the start. Assuming that if Turkey is neutral (and that's a big if) the Arabs would still be Soviet aligned the Kurds would drift westwards.
 
It's been a while since the 'where are they now' chapters
We'll likely be getting a set at the end of the war...
but I have a rather inane question that has no bearing on post-war nonsense or petty politics for once. I don't believe it's been asked yet in this thread but given the namesake... what happened to the Monkey specifically? If it's still alive it must be fairly old by now... Where would the gardener have gone if there is no more monarchy? Has the Greek palace been taken over by monkeys while everyone was looking away?
No idea about the monkey. In OTL the Tatoi palace was used as the summer home of the president of the republic and I'm inclined to say the same happened in OTL.
More pressingly, has it killed anyone? Lawrence's mechanical difficulties came around for Alexander as I recall... is there a Barbary Macaque stalking him around Kurdistan in turn?
Dragoumis mechanical difficulties. Lawrence and Mike Collins were just lucky. Ok that I liked both helped in them getting lucky but how likely it would be for them to be at the wrong place at the wrong time both OTL and TTL?
 
If I’m going to be frank, that story of a major political leader dying from a monkey bite sounds like something people would’ve dismissed as ASB in another universe. Really shows how reality is stranger than fiction.
 
Part 138
Sydney, December 27th, 1943

NSWGR delivered another two dozen AC4 Thunderbolt tanks to the Australian army. The Australian tank program, begun in 1940, had faced serious hurdles, mostly in securing the necessary machine tools, for a time many of the Australian officers involved in the program had even suspected that some of the British and American liaisons attached to it were trying in reality to undermine it and get it cancelled. But with Allied shipping horribly stretched trying to meet the needs of the European and Pacific fronts, maximizing Australian production, just like Greek production, had been not just desirable but necessary. Thus Australia's industries were by now producing everything from small arms, to artillery, tanks and aircraft. And while most of Australia's production consisted of British and American designs, the SLR-2 rifle gradually replacing the earlier Vickers-Pedersen in the production lines was the latest example, the Australians had also come up with domestic designs like the Thunderbolt that were just as good or better than their British and American counterparts.

Sofia, December 30th, 1943

225 Allied bombers, including 143 B-17s, escorted by scores of Spitfires, Ierax and P-40 fighters bombed the city one more time. Bulgarian fighters did rise up to defend their capital but the bombers would still go through despite the casualties inflicted on them. Despite its best efforts the Royal Bulgarian Air Force was in an increasingly losing battle. Since the start of the month the Bulgarians had lost 43 aircraft. They had received only 7 replacements, most of the aircraft the Germans had promised had gone to the Luftwaffe instead which had lost a further 69 aircraft in December. Back in the start of June the Bulgarians had 199 operational aircraft. Now they were down to 73. If the trend continued the air force would be gone by springtime.

Vasileia, Cyprus, December 31st, 1943

The handful of men and the single girl in the small rowboat made their way to the Turkish navy E-Boat waiting off the shore with all its lights turned off. As soon as they were aboard its captain set off for the coast of Anatolia 50 miles to the north at top speed. Coming that close to the shore was risky, between RAF aircraft patrolling around the island and Motor Torpedo Boats with mixed Greek and Cypriot crews operating out of Kyreneia. But at new year's eve patrols were more lax. Somewhat at least. After all the situation of the island appeared to be secure enough for the Cypriot brigade to leave the island a couple of weeks earlier. By the new year Alparslan Turkes, Emine Denktas and their companions would be safely in Turkey,

Thessaloniki, January 3rd, 1944


The men of the 1st Palestine Division marched through the city on their way to joining the British 10th army in the front. The innocuous name hid that two thirds of the division were Jewish volunteers from Palestine, with the third brigade of the division being Cypriots. But the locals would soon notice giving the men a rather more enthusiastic welcome...

Eski Sehir, January 6th, 1944


The pilot put down his FW190 and went straight for the squadron commander. The fighters with the stylized figures of Hercules wielding his club, HAF 26th Fighter Squadron, had been a rude surprise. By now the Ierax III flown by the Greeks, was a well known adversary, roughly comparable to their Spitfire IXs and his own FW190. But today the Greeks were flying a newer model that had had proven capable of up to 700 km/h. His commander would duly pass the information to Sivas, where it would be added to the mountain of problems the THK staff had to deal with. The air force was dying already between mounting enemy numbers and fuel shortages with just 148 combat aircraft left operational. The Griffon powered Ierax IV was the smallest of its problems.

Doiran, January 9th, 1944

Allied artillery and aircraft begun pummeling the Bulgarian positions, signaling the beginning of the 2nd battle of Doiran. Back in 1941 German victory at Doiran had meant the fall of Thessaloniki. Now if the Allies broke the front it could well mean knocking Bulgaria out of the war and cutting off Turkey from contact with her Allies. But the Bulgarians were heavily dug in and the Germans despite the increasing pressure on all fronts had increased their own forces in Macedonia to ten divisions. if course that just as many German divisions were dies down in their rear fighting the growing insurgency said quite a lot...

Central Italy, January 10th, 1944


The US II Corps was taken off the frontline to rebuild. Despite heavy casualties the Allies had failed to break the German defenses. But already the resumption of the offensive on an even greater scale was being prepared....
 
By the new year Alparslan Turkes, Emine Denktas and their companions would be safely in Turkey,
This sounds like we'd get a confrontation between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus post WWII which doesn't bode well for Turkey in the long term.
Thessaloniki, January 3rd, 1944
Considering that the Jews and Cypriots are fighting in the Balkans together I'd think they'd have good relations in the post war period which will be good for both countries.
Eski Sehir, January 6th, 1944
Wow the lack of equipment in the Axis is showing and the final showdown would be soon. The Turks would really have so little materiel that they won't be able to effectively resist soon and Cakmak must know that. Would Turkey capitulate soon? I still think turkey would fight a bit longer because they'd really dislike unconditional surrender.
Doiran, January 9th, 1944
We're definitely getting Wallies Bulgaria aren't we? Considering the circumstances I'd think we'd get minor changes on the border between Bulgaria and Greece and Romanian Dobruja aren't we?
 
We're definitely getting Wallies Bulgaria aren't we? Considering the circumstances I'd think we'd get minor changes on the border between Bulgaria and Greece and Romanian Dobruja aren't we?
Guess the question is who gets to run Bulgaria then after the war. Probably some sort of Agrarian-Broad Socialist coalition but we never know.
 
Guess the question is who gets to run Bulgaria then after the war. Probably some sort of Agrarian-Broad Socialist coalition but we never know.
I think we'd get an American-aligned Bulgaria with a significant socialist opposition (a right leaning dictator or democracy idk), considering that Bulgaria should capitulate quite soon I don't see them being folded into the Soviet sphere.
 
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Sofia, December 30th, 1943

225 Allied bombers, including 143 B-17s, escorted by scores of Spitfires, Ierax and P-40 fighters bombed the city one more time. Bulgarian fighters did rise up to defend their capital but the bombers would still go through despite the casualties inflicted on them. Despite its best efforts the Royal Bulgarian Air Force was in an increasingly losing battle. Since the start of the month the Bulgarians had lost 43 aircraft. They had received only 7 replacements, most of the aircraft the Germans had promised had gone to the Luftwaffe instead which had lost a further 69 aircraft in December. Back in the start of June the Bulgarians had 199 operational aircraft. Now they were down to 73. If the trend continued the air force would be gone by springtime.
Eski Sehir, January 6th, 1944

The pilot put down his FW190 and went straight for the squadron commander. The fighters with the stylized figures of Hercules wielding his club, HAF 26th Fighter Squadron, had been a rude surprise. By now the Ierax III flown by the Greeks, was a well known adversary, roughly comparable to their Spitfire IXs and his own FW190. But today the Greeks were flying a newer model that had had proven capable of up to 700 km/h. His commander would duly pass the information to Sivas, where it would be added to the mountain of problems the THK staff had to deal with. The air force was dying already between mounting enemy numbers and fuel shortages with just 148 combat aircraft left operational. The Griffon powered Ierax IV was the smallest of its problems.
Unless something changes dramatically, the Bulgarian and Turkish air forces are heading for extinction in the next 3-6 months.
My prediction; Bulgaria will capitulate/switch sides until March-April 1944 and Turkey a bit later (unless they are really smart).
 
If Bulgaria capitulates soon the that opens up Romania, Hungary and the entire Balkans to the Allied armies - and no matter what the percentages agreement may have implied, once western soldiers are there the Red Army will find it impossible to set up Communist dictatorships.
 
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