Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
Also if it was supplemented by a successful attempt at romanizing Lebanese Arabic by the likes of Said Akl and Louis Massignon IOTL, although no idea how things have played out so far in ATL.
You need to read a bit more Wisconsin School Diplomatic History ( William Appleman Williams i.e)
Hashemites and Saudi getting along? Is that even plausible after the past thirty years or so?
Part 121
Fore River, Massachusetts, May 25th, 1943
USS Bunker Hill became the fourth Essex class carrier to join the fleet. The USN carrier fleet had suffered grievous losses since the start of the war. But the four Essex class ships already delivered more than covered up for the losses and twelve more were on various stages of construction with a further seven on order, the orders would be increased to ten come June. As if this wasn't enough the navy had just taken delivery of its fourth Independence class light aircraft carrier, converted from Cleveland class cruiser hulls, with five more on the way. By now the decision back in January 1942, driven by the shock of the loss of USS Lexington at Pearl Harbor, to convert USS Alaska and USS Guam to aircraft carriers looked excessive. But it was to late to change it.
Metsovon, May 28th, 1943
The last Italian pockets in the area were eliminated with the Italians pushed back within 14km of Grevena in the north. The Allies could now move troops and supplies directly between Thessaly and Epirus once more. Repairing the Epirus railroad was going to take a while yet with priority given to expanding the double track railroad from Athens to the Olympus and repairing the railroads in Ionia, but this too would eventually happen.
Venice, May 29th, 1943
Hitler and Mussolini men one more time to discuss the situation in Italy. The climate could be best described as acrimonious with Hitler accusing the Italian army's military performance and demanding total war from Italy and the Italians accusing the Germans for lack of support. Nothing serious would come from the meeting. Nothing besides the rift between the two allies widening even more, and yet more distrust created for Mussolini within the Italian leadership after he had failed to gain anything serious from the Germans.
Newcastle upon Tyne, June 1st, 1943
HMS Perseus the tenth Colossus class light aircraft carrier was laid down. With 16 ships on order the class would be surpassed only by the American Essex class in number.
Palermo, June 3rd, 1943
The British 44th Infantry Division captured the city. Italian resistance, by now reinforced by two German divisions continued unabated in the north-east of the island, much to Patton's frustration his advance had been checked in the Etna. But further Allied reinforcements were also pouring on the island, an estimated 359,000 men would be committed by the Allies in the battle for Sicily...
Leninakan, Armenia, June 7th, 1943
One more Soviet probe was beaten back. Vladimir Triadafillov had beenn ordered to take the battle to the enemy and that he had. But he had not been given any reinforcements, every last soldier and tank was being poured by the Stavka to the Western front where intelligence was that the Germans were preparing for a major offensive to reduce the Kursk salient. So he had restricted himself to limited attacks to conserve his forces till reinforcements could be made available. This had been beaten back handily by the 3rd Turkish army. Fighting would continue nevertheless...
Spain, June 10th, 1943
The Spanish army start its next push towards Zaragosa. By now it was clear that the provisional government had the upper hand against the Falangists, with the Spanish army fielding over 450,000 men against 289,000 for the Falangists. But the Rebel junta her rear secure in German occupied France was not giving up just yet with the government's army having to pay for every single advance it made.
Washington DC, June 11th, 1943
The decision to cancel the four remaining Alasca class cruisers was taken. There had been thoughts to proceed with construction of the third ship USS Hawaii on the original design, her two sisters converted to carriers were going to be slightly inferior to the Essex class carriers so it made no sense to build her as a carrier, but with the last three ships of the class cancelled it did not make much sense to build her as a single ship class either. Construction on USS Kentucky would resume instead.
USS Bunker Hill became the fourth Essex class carrier to join the fleet. The USN carrier fleet had suffered grievous losses since the start of the war. But the four Essex class ships already delivered more than covered up for the losses and twelve more were on various stages of construction with a further seven on order, the orders would be increased to ten come June. As if this wasn't enough the navy had just taken delivery of its fourth Independence class light aircraft carrier, converted from Cleveland class cruiser hulls, with five more on the way. By now the decision back in January 1942, driven by the shock of the loss of USS Lexington at Pearl Harbor, to convert USS Alaska and USS Guam to aircraft carriers looked excessive. But it was to late to change it.
Metsovon, May 28th, 1943
The last Italian pockets in the area were eliminated with the Italians pushed back within 14km of Grevena in the north. The Allies could now move troops and supplies directly between Thessaly and Epirus once more. Repairing the Epirus railroad was going to take a while yet with priority given to expanding the double track railroad from Athens to the Olympus and repairing the railroads in Ionia, but this too would eventually happen.
Venice, May 29th, 1943
Hitler and Mussolini men one more time to discuss the situation in Italy. The climate could be best described as acrimonious with Hitler accusing the Italian army's military performance and demanding total war from Italy and the Italians accusing the Germans for lack of support. Nothing serious would come from the meeting. Nothing besides the rift between the two allies widening even more, and yet more distrust created for Mussolini within the Italian leadership after he had failed to gain anything serious from the Germans.
Newcastle upon Tyne, June 1st, 1943
HMS Perseus the tenth Colossus class light aircraft carrier was laid down. With 16 ships on order the class would be surpassed only by the American Essex class in number.
Palermo, June 3rd, 1943
The British 44th Infantry Division captured the city. Italian resistance, by now reinforced by two German divisions continued unabated in the north-east of the island, much to Patton's frustration his advance had been checked in the Etna. But further Allied reinforcements were also pouring on the island, an estimated 359,000 men would be committed by the Allies in the battle for Sicily...
Leninakan, Armenia, June 7th, 1943
One more Soviet probe was beaten back. Vladimir Triadafillov had beenn ordered to take the battle to the enemy and that he had. But he had not been given any reinforcements, every last soldier and tank was being poured by the Stavka to the Western front where intelligence was that the Germans were preparing for a major offensive to reduce the Kursk salient. So he had restricted himself to limited attacks to conserve his forces till reinforcements could be made available. This had been beaten back handily by the 3rd Turkish army. Fighting would continue nevertheless...
Spain, June 10th, 1943
The Spanish army start its next push towards Zaragosa. By now it was clear that the provisional government had the upper hand against the Falangists, with the Spanish army fielding over 450,000 men against 289,000 for the Falangists. But the Rebel junta her rear secure in German occupied France was not giving up just yet with the government's army having to pay for every single advance it made.
Washington DC, June 11th, 1943
The decision to cancel the four remaining Alasca class cruisers was taken. There had been thoughts to proceed with construction of the third ship USS Hawaii on the original design, her two sisters converted to carriers were going to be slightly inferior to the Essex class carriers so it made no sense to build her as a carrier, but with the last three ships of the class cancelled it did not make much sense to build her as a single ship class either. Construction on USS Kentucky would resume instead.
An ursine moderator can be heard clapping in joy in the background.
Now things are getting interesting. The Balkans should have much more fluid battles now considering the Italians are failing everywhere, and even if the Germans get to Yugoslavia I don't see them being able to hold everything at the same time.
The Turks still fighting against the USSR is not surprising considering their circumstances.
The Turks still fighting against the USSR is not surprising considering their circumstances.
Turkey entered the war from the premise that getting back what was lost to Greece, and expanding south and east in Syria and Armenia, was possible. And the initial successes made the decision for entering the war seem sane, or even wise.
But now, Turkey is on the defensive in three fronts, giving ground everywhere and almost cut off from the only country (Germany) that is providing equipment, ammunitions and reinforcements, which ally is also on the defensive at every front. Therefore, not only the initial goals for the war are obviously not going to be achieved, but Turkey faces for the second time in 25 years the possibility of total defeat.
So, I wonder for how long can Turkey fight on, before a coup d' etat is launched and a capitulation happens.
I think its very possible that turkey gets a failed coup and we get a civil war so the side who gets western help accepts to the concessions while the other side gets ussr help and still loses significant territories.
I disagree, it wasn't. In fact, they were repeating and with a worse starting position the Great War Ottoman leadership's strategically mistake. ITTL, the Turkish leadership, seeking to recover/revenge for what had been lost, they decided, again, to join a German regime in a world war fought on multiple fronts again the foremost land Power and the foremost Naval power. So, they took the only way that would give them, (no matter as minimal that it could be), once in a lifetime (from their perspective) chance to crush their main enemy and become a big power again.
I'd guess, it would probably be until, that a major front would be broken and/or that a major failure would be happening and the allies armies would be exploiting it, advancing unstoppable towards what would rest of their nation core regions...
I do think a coup-to-surrender combo or else a situation mirroring OTL Italy is an increasingly likely outcome in Turkey. For one it's going to be exceptionally hard for an outside army to get to and occupy Sivas, for another they are fighting and losing on a lot of fronts and had equipment shortages even before hostilities broke out. There isn't any relief in sight, and at some point elements of the civilian government and/or some of the more pragmatic (or opportunistic) elements in the country's military are going take matters into their own hands.
Of course it wasn't. That's not what I wrote. I wrote the Turks thought it was possible and sane.
And if you put aside our knowledge of things, the Turkish politicians had every reason to think that way:
1. Turkey seemed to not have much to lose.
2. The Turks were still suffering a historical shock.
3. The blitzkrieg had stunned everybody in the world.
4. After the fall of France and the fashion it happened, everything seemed possible.
5. In 1941 who could be sure that the USSR wouldn't collapse like France, or at least capitulate?
And of course we shouldn't forget that even politicians have emotions, convictions and prejudices and therefore their decisions are not always dictated by reason or reason alone, contrary to what the Marxist reading of History claims.
I somewhat feel like the Turkish Government is incredibly entrenched. And terrain is on their advantage indeed. They will hurt and minorities will revolt, but I don't see the Turkish core revolting. I wouldn't be surprised if they would be the last theater of Europe/middle east to collapse. I wonder if its going to have a different effect on their peace treaty if they keep fighting on.
Tbf I wouldn't say that joining the axis at early WWII is an insane decision as Hitler wasn't actually attacking Britain and the USSR, but there isn't really a good exit strategy when Germany declared war on everyone is there?
But tbf I think ppl are underestimating the Turkish spirit. They aren't the Italians where they're trying to opportunistically gain an empire. They're trying to regain an empire which puts their thoughts to be more similar to Germany's. Turkey will fight to the end.
Does anyone else feel like it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the Hellenic Regime to purchase one of the more modern aircraft carriers from the US to form their own Carrier strike group post-war for power projection purposes? I mean, considering how many are going to be around by the end of the war, maybe it'll help the Hellenic politicians sleep at night.
Could happen, but, project power where?
I mean the whole Greek sphere of interest would be within the range of her airports. Except if you have regions like Northeast Afrika or Syro-palestine, which doesn't seem too likely for Greece to be so much involved to have to invest so many resources.