Napoleonic victory world 2006
- Thread starter Straha
- Start date
Hmmm, well I would imagine much of Napoleon's empire would collapse after his death or in the best case scenario a generation or two afterwards. France still would probably make out like a bandit. I would imagine it would outright annex belgium and possibly the netherlands as well, have its long desired Rhine border with Germany and take much of northern italy as well. Even if it would lose its convenient sphere of puppet states/allies I think its not unreasonable for it, still being a significant continental military power to hold on to alot of its territoral annexations.
Two major power blocs, France and the US on one side and Britain and Russia on the other. With Germany splintered and A-H unstable there aren't really any other powers except Denmark-Norway, Sweden and the Ottomans.
As for France, I expect it would include at least parts of Italy and most of the Low Countries, Possibly with parts of Spain or even....... Ireland.
If Britain is weaker, the US might get Canada, with French support. Gotta love that.
Not sure about India, China or Japan....
South America would probably be about the same, just one Guiana instead of three.
Africa, close except the French get more, the British less, the Germans none and the Scandinavians some.
Australia might be split up somehow.
As for France, I expect it would include at least parts of Italy and most of the Low Countries, Possibly with parts of Spain or even....... Ireland.
If Britain is weaker, the US might get Canada, with French support. Gotta love that.
Not sure about India, China or Japan....
South America would probably be about the same, just one Guiana instead of three.
Africa, close except the French get more, the British less, the Germans none and the Scandinavians some.
Australia might be split up somehow.
Max Sinister
Banned
If the Empire is overstretched, it's not a gain but a drain for France. A restive population means lots of trouble and thus more than it's worth. One big disadvantage of Napoleon: He used to give money and lands in the conquered lands to his followers - so he had to conquer more and more. You'll simply reach a limit by that way.
Of course, much depends on certain things: Did he defeat Russia ITTL? When does he die? Does Britain continue to fight him? Can he defeat the guerillas in Spain (not that likely)? Does he build up a big fleet to fight Britain on the sea and on other continents? Can he stabilize his empire? Does he start to acquire colonies?
Of course, much depends on certain things: Did he defeat Russia ITTL? When does he die? Does Britain continue to fight him? Can he defeat the guerillas in Spain (not that likely)? Does he build up a big fleet to fight Britain on the sea and on other continents? Can he stabilize his empire? Does he start to acquire colonies?
Redbeard
Banned
A lot would depend on when the victory is won but I guess the most lasting results would be a relatively late but decisive victory. Something like the Russian Army being destroyed at Smolensk or Borodino and the Zar falling. Next Russia quits and the French main army leaves in good order. Russia falls back into pre-Peter times incl. long beards and even more vodka.
This will leave most of continental Europe incl. Austria and Prussia as French allies without many options to be anything else.
The main 1813 campaign will instead of Saxony take place in Spain, where Napoleon and the Grande Armee smashes Wellington. The British seek an armistuce but are refused.
Denmark-Norway will stay together, but Sweden is unlikely to get Finland back as long as the Russians behave themselves.
In the next decade the French Empire focus on striking down local rebellions in mainly Germany and Spain and enforcing the trade war gainst GB. The British are not at least hard hit by being cut off from supplies of tar and timber from the Baltic. By the early 1820s the French Navy and its Spanish, Danish-Norwegian and American allies are strong enough to challenge the British naval superiority, and in a huge battle west of Jutland the British Fleet is practically anihilated and the British Isles shortly after invaded.
The United Kingdom is dissolved and its overseas possessions taken over by France and allies.
The Empire of France now includes Belgium and Netherlands, NW Germany, the Rhineland and Northern Italy but the Austrians have been given back some of their provinces in appreciation of "Father in Law's" assistance in keeping the German nationalists down.
At the Zenith of his power Napoleon dies shortly after, but N. has used the years wisely to bring up a smart and healty Crownprince (the king of Rome) and sack (shoot) people like Fouche and Talleyrand. The expected crisis never evolves as old supports like Davout, Ney and Berthier declare their unconditional support for the young Napoleon II.
In the 19th century corruption is the main problem in the world wide French Empire, no real oppositin is really possible. Minor Monarchs here and there try to grab a passing opportunity for a bite, and some succeed and some don't. An example of the last is bernadotte in Sweden who feels squeezed between the danes and Russians. He tries to stir the pot among Norwegian Nationalists and demand Finland and Ingermanland from Russia. In 1841 he utilises some dynastical unrest in Moscow to invade Finland without permission. This promtly has the Christian VIII of Denmark-Norway to offer Napoleon II to bring back order and soon Bernadotte finds himself and the main Swedish army isloated in the deep dark Finish forrest. Christian had expected to gain the Crown of Sweden, but Napoleon prefer many small allies to a few large and Christian is compensated with a couple of German Duchies and some distant colonies which mainly involve a cost to police.
The Ottomans are pressed back in a number of wars in the 19th century and by 1882 is dissolved. Istanbul becomes Constantinopel again, but under French mandate (and some heavy ethnic cleansing), Greece gets all the Aegean coast and Austria some minor Balkan areas, France takes the rest. Frannz Joseph had hoped for some more, but again the French are very conscious of keeping their allies relatively small.
By early 20th century France itself and most of her European allies are Constitutional Monarchies but the international system is still basically Feudal. Russia is in deep poverty.
USA is more difficult to contain, being so far away, but the Mexicans prove effective instruments in stopping US ambitions in Texas and California in mid 19th century. In exchange of Louisiana USA is however allowed to expand to to the Rocky mountains. A rebellion in the southern USA in 1861 is quickly defeated by Mexican intervention.
By early 20th century USA is a wealthy industrial nation, the 2nd biggest with Austria and japan a close 3rd and fourth. In the Americas Mexico is the biggest bully however, including Texas and California on the north and Panama in the south. Mexico has on a number of occasions been an effective "governor" of the Americas on French behalf, but has also been to far away to refuse some good extra bites in reward.
When the Brazillian rubber adventure starts in late 19th century and other S.American economies also develop (guano in Chile, cattle in Argentina) there rises a wave of latino pan americanism. The French countermove involves collapsing the rubber market with cheap rubber from the Malayan plantations and synthetic fertilisers. This for the time stops a rival from growing up but also reinforces pan-Americanism and anti-French sentiments. Not at least US and Mexican investment has South American economy regain a fair growth however.
France and her loyal vassals are no doubt the strongest, but not really strong enough to maintain the usual hegemony as far away as America. In 1941 France declares war on Japan as she refuses to leave Southern China and Pacific Pact of Peace declares war on France and Co. The US President, a descendant of English refugees from the 1820s, declare support for the PPP.
The mighty French navy initially take surprisingly heavy losses to the IJN, but over the next year the IJN is simply grinded down and the French can begin the planned naval campaign to cut off Japan from imports. In America the French launch an offensive into USA from Quebec and Louisianna and there is a jungle campaign around French Guyana. The offensive in N. America initially gains good ground but soon turn extremely bloody as the French and allies face both US partisans and a huge Mexican army.
By 1945 a starved Japan seeks armistice and both the French and Mexicans see an opportunity to get out of this mess. Basically Japan is left to pay, but the Mexican hegmony over the Americas is accepted by the French.
By 1959 the Atomic bomb is invented by the French and used twice in China, but soon Mexico gets their too.
By 2006 the world is basically bipolar - with the Mexicans controlling the Americas apart from a few French dots and the French the most of the rest.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
This will leave most of continental Europe incl. Austria and Prussia as French allies without many options to be anything else.
The main 1813 campaign will instead of Saxony take place in Spain, where Napoleon and the Grande Armee smashes Wellington. The British seek an armistuce but are refused.
Denmark-Norway will stay together, but Sweden is unlikely to get Finland back as long as the Russians behave themselves.
In the next decade the French Empire focus on striking down local rebellions in mainly Germany and Spain and enforcing the trade war gainst GB. The British are not at least hard hit by being cut off from supplies of tar and timber from the Baltic. By the early 1820s the French Navy and its Spanish, Danish-Norwegian and American allies are strong enough to challenge the British naval superiority, and in a huge battle west of Jutland the British Fleet is practically anihilated and the British Isles shortly after invaded.
The United Kingdom is dissolved and its overseas possessions taken over by France and allies.
The Empire of France now includes Belgium and Netherlands, NW Germany, the Rhineland and Northern Italy but the Austrians have been given back some of their provinces in appreciation of "Father in Law's" assistance in keeping the German nationalists down.
At the Zenith of his power Napoleon dies shortly after, but N. has used the years wisely to bring up a smart and healty Crownprince (the king of Rome) and sack (shoot) people like Fouche and Talleyrand. The expected crisis never evolves as old supports like Davout, Ney and Berthier declare their unconditional support for the young Napoleon II.
In the 19th century corruption is the main problem in the world wide French Empire, no real oppositin is really possible. Minor Monarchs here and there try to grab a passing opportunity for a bite, and some succeed and some don't. An example of the last is bernadotte in Sweden who feels squeezed between the danes and Russians. He tries to stir the pot among Norwegian Nationalists and demand Finland and Ingermanland from Russia. In 1841 he utilises some dynastical unrest in Moscow to invade Finland without permission. This promtly has the Christian VIII of Denmark-Norway to offer Napoleon II to bring back order and soon Bernadotte finds himself and the main Swedish army isloated in the deep dark Finish forrest. Christian had expected to gain the Crown of Sweden, but Napoleon prefer many small allies to a few large and Christian is compensated with a couple of German Duchies and some distant colonies which mainly involve a cost to police.
The Ottomans are pressed back in a number of wars in the 19th century and by 1882 is dissolved. Istanbul becomes Constantinopel again, but under French mandate (and some heavy ethnic cleansing), Greece gets all the Aegean coast and Austria some minor Balkan areas, France takes the rest. Frannz Joseph had hoped for some more, but again the French are very conscious of keeping their allies relatively small.
By early 20th century France itself and most of her European allies are Constitutional Monarchies but the international system is still basically Feudal. Russia is in deep poverty.
USA is more difficult to contain, being so far away, but the Mexicans prove effective instruments in stopping US ambitions in Texas and California in mid 19th century. In exchange of Louisiana USA is however allowed to expand to to the Rocky mountains. A rebellion in the southern USA in 1861 is quickly defeated by Mexican intervention.
By early 20th century USA is a wealthy industrial nation, the 2nd biggest with Austria and japan a close 3rd and fourth. In the Americas Mexico is the biggest bully however, including Texas and California on the north and Panama in the south. Mexico has on a number of occasions been an effective "governor" of the Americas on French behalf, but has also been to far away to refuse some good extra bites in reward.
When the Brazillian rubber adventure starts in late 19th century and other S.American economies also develop (guano in Chile, cattle in Argentina) there rises a wave of latino pan americanism. The French countermove involves collapsing the rubber market with cheap rubber from the Malayan plantations and synthetic fertilisers. This for the time stops a rival from growing up but also reinforces pan-Americanism and anti-French sentiments. Not at least US and Mexican investment has South American economy regain a fair growth however.
France and her loyal vassals are no doubt the strongest, but not really strong enough to maintain the usual hegemony as far away as America. In 1941 France declares war on Japan as she refuses to leave Southern China and Pacific Pact of Peace declares war on France and Co. The US President, a descendant of English refugees from the 1820s, declare support for the PPP.
The mighty French navy initially take surprisingly heavy losses to the IJN, but over the next year the IJN is simply grinded down and the French can begin the planned naval campaign to cut off Japan from imports. In America the French launch an offensive into USA from Quebec and Louisianna and there is a jungle campaign around French Guyana. The offensive in N. America initially gains good ground but soon turn extremely bloody as the French and allies face both US partisans and a huge Mexican army.
By 1945 a starved Japan seeks armistice and both the French and Mexicans see an opportunity to get out of this mess. Basically Japan is left to pay, but the Mexican hegmony over the Americas is accepted by the French.
By 1959 the Atomic bomb is invented by the French and used twice in China, but soon Mexico gets their too.
By 2006 the world is basically bipolar - with the Mexicans controlling the Americas apart from a few French dots and the French the most of the rest.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Max Sinister
Banned
If Napoleon's empire doesn't fall apart during his lifetime, it may one generation later. Napoleon's generals were good, so were his strategy and tactics, but they might stick to the old ways under his son, which gives an enemy with new ideas the opportunity to win.
HelloLegend
Banned
French would remain the Lingua Franca of the world and the international language would be French and not English. If the French Empire assimilated the various Germanic principalities, then the hatred between the French and Germans is lessen thereby creating less of a chance for WWI, and no rising of the NAZI prior to WW2. This is of course not counting the Butterfly effects of earlier development of space travel due to the French advancing mathematics and science.
Goldstein
Banned
I'm almost agree with Redbeard, but I think that the French Empire would turn eventually into a parlamentary monarchy, like UK and Spain in OTL, because of industrial development would lead to a wide and powerful middle class demading more political power, and the Emperor would be afraid of a revolution able of disintegrating the empire
Goldstein
Banned
Yes, but the old spanish situation in OTL (High underdevelopment, Isolation, a harsh postwar) wasn't the same. Anyway, Spain didn't achieved a full industrialized economy, a full capitalist economy and a wide middle class until 1960-65 aproximately. The parlametary monarchy was achieved only 10-15 years after that. So that kind of democratisation in a high developed french empire is also possible.
Besides, It would be some political and social differences.
-The metric system would be used worldwide
-French culture and language would be everywhere, like anglo-saxon culture and engish language in OTL
-There would not be communism as we kwow it, but "utopic socialism" would be taken more seriously, with some current projects like phalanstries and all of that
-Western philosophy and modern art would be much more influenced by realism and naturalism
-Political issues would be more based in a centralization/legal equality axis, instead of our Political freedom/economic freedom axis. (Utopic) Socialism and some kind of jacobinism would have influenced the worker's struggle in 19th and early 20th century
-Chatolicism, but also atheism and sincretism, would be more expanded.
-Statistics, biology and sociology would be much more advanced. "Social Lamarckism" (memetic science) would be highly developed.
-Economic theory would less developed, still based on Colbert's mercantilism, thought much less rigid.
-There would be less prejudices against some drugs (no war on drugs), but much more prejudices against abortion and sexual relationships before marriage (more catholic influence).
Besides, It would be some political and social differences.
-The metric system would be used worldwide
-French culture and language would be everywhere, like anglo-saxon culture and engish language in OTL
-There would not be communism as we kwow it, but "utopic socialism" would be taken more seriously, with some current projects like phalanstries and all of that
-Western philosophy and modern art would be much more influenced by realism and naturalism
-Political issues would be more based in a centralization/legal equality axis, instead of our Political freedom/economic freedom axis. (Utopic) Socialism and some kind of jacobinism would have influenced the worker's struggle in 19th and early 20th century
-Chatolicism, but also atheism and sincretism, would be more expanded.
-Statistics, biology and sociology would be much more advanced. "Social Lamarckism" (memetic science) would be highly developed.
-Economic theory would less developed, still based on Colbert's mercantilism, thought much less rigid.
-There would be less prejudices against some drugs (no war on drugs), but much more prejudices against abortion and sexual relationships before marriage (more catholic influence).
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If Napoleon had been able to shoot Talleyrand and Fouche, he might have won. Both were instrumental in his downfall, and the outcome of the invasion of Russia.
I don't expect Red's France uber alles future, but expect no united Germany and therefore no WWI, and WWII. The world would be radically different with no holocaust or deaths in WWI and WWII. Expect Africa and the Mid-East to be radically different....
I don't expect Red's France uber alles future, but expect no united Germany and therefore no WWI, and WWII. The world would be radically different with no holocaust or deaths in WWI and WWII. Expect Africa and the Mid-East to be radically different....
EvolvedSaurian said:Two major power blocs, France and the US on one side and Britain and Russia on the other. With Germany splintered and A-H unstable there aren't really any other powers except Denmark-Norway, Sweden and the Ottomans.
As for France, I expect it would include at least parts of Italy and most of the Low Countries, Possibly with parts of Spain or even....... Ireland.
If Britain is weaker, the US might get Canada, with French support. Gotta love that.
Not sure about India, China or Japan....
South America would probably be about the same, just one Guiana instead of three.
Africa, close except the French get more, the British less, the Germans none and the Scandinavians some.
Australia might be split up somehow.
I don't know about that. Napoleon wouldn't be above adventuring in the Americas (let's say Brazil for starters). Combine that with the US as an arsenal and granary safely behind the lines, as well as a source of credit, and I could see Great Britain and the US gravitating together--particularly given the common heritage. Could I see Canada coming into the US as payment for services rendered? Not out of the question.
France's sphere of influence would certainly include the Iberian peninsula, and likely a client form of a unified Italy. The Teutonic and Scandinavian nations, while having the potential to be a power in their own right, would probably remained splintered: too many second- and third-level cultural differences to really forge any bond of union.
Colonies would be largely those of France and Britain, with Spain and Portugal hanging on to remnants acquired in the 16th and 17th centuries, and a few odds and ends (e.g., Greenland, part of the Virgin Islands) in Scandinavian or (Indonesia) Dutch hands.
