Lehi was a terrorist Zionist paramilitary organisation created by Abraham Stern in 1940. There goal was the creation of a Jewish state composed of Palestine and Jordan they were very Anti-British and believed that they weren't better than the Nazis. They have tried to collaborate with the third Reich during the Second world war to create their Jewish state, Stern believed that Hitler's plan wasn't to genocide the Jew but to expel them from Germany.What if the Nazi have accepted a alliance with Lehi and instead of making a genocide of the Jewish people tried to expel them all to Palestine? Who would no Holocaust affect the history of the middle east and reputation of the Third Reich and Lehi?
Lehi-German Alliance
I mean Lehi in a world were the Holocaust did happen, still had a member become a Israeli PM.
But I think the Nazis might only make that move of supporting a uprising of Zionists, cynically if it was already in motion against the British. And even then, it's unlikely even strategically the Nazis would see more value with the Arab world.
But I think the Nazis might only make that move of supporting a uprising of Zionists, cynically if it was already in motion against the British. And even then, it's unlikely even strategically the Nazis would see more value with the Arab world.
Yeah I imagine that they would support them cynically. Couldn't the Nazis support both Lehi and other arab nationalist group promising to them land without telling the other what they would really give them in case of victory and that by the end they chose more valuable Arab ally and destroy Lehi when they would have lost their utility to the Reich?
kham_coc
Banned
I think the date needs to change, if the organisation was founded a few years earlier maybe there could be a bit more interaction, and then the initial plan could be to deport everyone there (instead of Madagascar, though actually "possible" ittl) - I don't see how it could remain a viable plan after Barbarossa however, the numbers would be to great (and the general barbarity would make the point mostly moot).
Domrémy-Scorniçesti Axis
Banned
Italy is more likely to do so; Mussolini did not care about antisemitism either way, and before adopting the racial laws, he helped Jabotinsky train guerrilas in Italy. The cooperation would be a failure and end after Italy left the war, though.
But wouldn't Hitler oppose to Italy's alliance with Lehi?
And if yes and a de facto alliance between Lehi and Rome is created would Hitler abandon the idea of genocide of the Jews to instead deport them all to Eretz Israel?
Perhaps there is such severe split between Italy and Germany on some reason that they are not allies.
They wanted unrestricted immigration of Jews in Palestine I imagine that if the German wanted to collaborate with them a larger versions of Haavara agreements would have happened not only with Germany but with other antisemitic axis powers like Croatia or Slovakia but state like Bulgaria wouldn't
Garrison
Donor
Not a chance. The Germans have no means to ship the Jews to Palestine. The ones they graciously allowed to emigrate prewar were fleeced of most of their assets. By 1940 the Nazis had moved on to just stripping the jews of their wealth and they had no intention of letting them survive. Shipping them to Madagascar, shipping them to Palestine, using them as slave labour, or sending them to Auschwitz the purpose was the same, killing the Jews. As I say its academic as the Germans had no means to ship Jews anywhere overseas and of course they weren't in control of Palestine. there were lunatic frigne groups all over that tried to align themselves with the Nazis, it rarely ended well for them.
Yes. And in some cases like Ratosh or as mentioned Jabotinsky-Mussolini it was due to their platforms being similar. The non Jewish aspects of Jabotinsky had a huge debt to the same Romantic Italian Republicans,Hobbesians and Futurists that influenced Mussolini, Marinetti and Pareto. Jabotinsky in particular was most accurately described as Jewish Peronism in Palestine.
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So let's tell that Lehi is founded few years earlier who would this have changed that?
Before Eichmann's 1937 visit, there was a visit in 1933:
When a Nazi toured the Holy Land to find a solution for the ‘Jewish problem’ - S S officer Leopold von Mildenstein visited British Mandatory Palestine and met with local Jews in 1933.
"""
Mildenstein in 1933 was touring what was then British Mandatory Palestine along with a German Jewish friend, Kurt Tuchler, and their wives.
It was part of his efforts to facilitate the solution to Germany’s “Jewish problem” by relocating them to their historic homeland.
"""
von Mildenstein was interesting.
"""
Mildenstein had taken an early interest in Zionism, even going so far as to attend Zionist conferences to help deepen his understanding of the movement. He actively promoted Zionism as a way out of the official impasse on the Jewish question: as a way of making Germany Judenrein (free of Jews). Some Zionists, whose movement had grown tremendously in popularity among German Jews since Hitler came to power, co-operated. On 7 April 1933, the Juedische Rundschau, the bi-weekly paper of the Zionist movement, declared that of all Jewish groups only the Zionist Federation of Germany was capable of approaching the Nazis in good faith as "honest partners". The Federation then commissioned Kurt Tuchler, an acquaintance of Mildenstein, to make contact with possible Zionist sympathisers within the Nazi Party. Tuchler hoped to convince Mildenstein's circle that the Nazis should openly promote Jewish nationalism. Tuchler asked Mildenstein to write something positive about Jewish Palestine in the press. Mildenstein agreed, on condition that he be allowed to visit the country in person, with Tuchler as his guide. So, in the spring of 1933 a party of four set out from Berlin, consisting of Mildenstein, Tuchler, and their wives. They spent a month together in Palestine, and Mildenstein began to write a series of articles for Der Angriff, a Nazi Party newspaper in Berlin, founded by Joseph Goebbels in 1927. According to Lenni Brenner, Mildenstein himself remained in Palestine for a total of six months before his return to Germany, and he even learnt a few words of Hebrew. In August 1933 Hitler's government and German Zionists entered into the Haavara Agreement, which encouraged emigration by allowing Jews to transfer property and funds from Germany to Palestine.
On 24 May 1934, the Judenreferat, then led by Walter Ilges, sent Reinhard Heydrich, the new Director of the Gestapo, a memorandum stating that the only answer to the Jewish Question was the emigration of all Jews from Germany. It recommended investigating all possible destinations and then working on delivery. While there was no mention of Palestine, the Zionists were suggested as a possible key to success. This memorandum, together with the urging of Mildenstein that Zionism was the solution to the Jewish Question, led Heydrich to adopt emigration of the Jews as a firm policy and to hire Mildenstein.
Between 9 September and 9 October 1934, Der Angriff published a series of twelve pro-Zionist reports by Mildenstein, entitled A Nazi Goes to Palestine, in honour of which the newspaper issued a commemorative medallion, cast with the swastika on one side and the Star of David on the other. Goebbels then had the work printed also in the Völkische Beobachter, the newspaper of the Nazi Party.
From August 1934 to June 1936, Mildenstein worked in the headquarters of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), the security service of the SS, in Section II/112, in charge of the Jewish Desk, with the title of Judenreferent (Jewish Affairs Officer). This title meant that he was responsible for reporting on "Jewish Affairs" under the overall command of Heydrich. During those years, Mildenstein favoured a policy of encouraging Germany's Jewish population to emigrate to Palestine, and in pursuit of this policy he developed positive contacts with Zionist organisations. SS officials were even instructed to encourage the activities of the Zionists within the Jewish community, who were to be favoured over the assimilationists, said to be the real danger to Nazism.
Adolf Eichmann, later one of the most significant organisers of the Holocaust, believed that his big break came in 1934, when he had a meeting with Mildenstein, a fellow-Austrian, in the Wilhelmstrasse and was invited to join Mildenstein's department. Eichmann later stated that Mildenstein rejected the vulgar antisemitism of Streicher. Soon after his arrival in the section Mildenstein gave Eichmann a book on Judaism by Adolf Böhm, a leading Jew from Vienna.
In the summer of 1935, then holding the rank of SS-Untersturmführer, Mildenstein attended the 19th Congress of the Zionist Organization in Lucerne, Switzerland, as an observer attached to the German Jewish delegation.
Mildenstein's pro-Zionist line was overtaken by events, and after a dispute with Heydrich in 1936 he was removed from his post and transferred to the Foreign Ministry's press department. He had fallen out of favour because migration to Palestine was not happening quickly enough. His departure from the SD also saw a shift in SS policy, marked by the publication of a pamphlet written by Eichmann warning of the dangers of a strong Jewish state in the Middle East
"""
Mildenstein had taken an early interest in Zionism, even going so far as to attend Zionist conferences to help deepen his understanding of the movement. He actively promoted Zionism as a way out of the official impasse on the Jewish question: as a way of making Germany Judenrein (free of Jews). Some Zionists, whose movement had grown tremendously in popularity among German Jews since Hitler came to power, co-operated. On 7 April 1933, the Juedische Rundschau, the bi-weekly paper of the Zionist movement, declared that of all Jewish groups only the Zionist Federation of Germany was capable of approaching the Nazis in good faith as "honest partners". The Federation then commissioned Kurt Tuchler, an acquaintance of Mildenstein, to make contact with possible Zionist sympathisers within the Nazi Party. Tuchler hoped to convince Mildenstein's circle that the Nazis should openly promote Jewish nationalism. Tuchler asked Mildenstein to write something positive about Jewish Palestine in the press. Mildenstein agreed, on condition that he be allowed to visit the country in person, with Tuchler as his guide. So, in the spring of 1933 a party of four set out from Berlin, consisting of Mildenstein, Tuchler, and their wives. They spent a month together in Palestine, and Mildenstein began to write a series of articles for Der Angriff, a Nazi Party newspaper in Berlin, founded by Joseph Goebbels in 1927. According to Lenni Brenner, Mildenstein himself remained in Palestine for a total of six months before his return to Germany, and he even learnt a few words of Hebrew. In August 1933 Hitler's government and German Zionists entered into the Haavara Agreement, which encouraged emigration by allowing Jews to transfer property and funds from Germany to Palestine.
On 24 May 1934, the Judenreferat, then led by Walter Ilges, sent Reinhard Heydrich, the new Director of the Gestapo, a memorandum stating that the only answer to the Jewish Question was the emigration of all Jews from Germany. It recommended investigating all possible destinations and then working on delivery. While there was no mention of Palestine, the Zionists were suggested as a possible key to success. This memorandum, together with the urging of Mildenstein that Zionism was the solution to the Jewish Question, led Heydrich to adopt emigration of the Jews as a firm policy and to hire Mildenstein.
Between 9 September and 9 October 1934, Der Angriff published a series of twelve pro-Zionist reports by Mildenstein, entitled A Nazi Goes to Palestine, in honour of which the newspaper issued a commemorative medallion, cast with the swastika on one side and the Star of David on the other. Goebbels then had the work printed also in the Völkische Beobachter, the newspaper of the Nazi Party.
From August 1934 to June 1936, Mildenstein worked in the headquarters of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), the security service of the SS, in Section II/112, in charge of the Jewish Desk, with the title of Judenreferent (Jewish Affairs Officer). This title meant that he was responsible for reporting on "Jewish Affairs" under the overall command of Heydrich. During those years, Mildenstein favoured a policy of encouraging Germany's Jewish population to emigrate to Palestine, and in pursuit of this policy he developed positive contacts with Zionist organisations. SS officials were even instructed to encourage the activities of the Zionists within the Jewish community, who were to be favoured over the assimilationists, said to be the real danger to Nazism.
Adolf Eichmann, later one of the most significant organisers of the Holocaust, believed that his big break came in 1934, when he had a meeting with Mildenstein, a fellow-Austrian, in the Wilhelmstrasse and was invited to join Mildenstein's department. Eichmann later stated that Mildenstein rejected the vulgar antisemitism of Streicher. Soon after his arrival in the section Mildenstein gave Eichmann a book on Judaism by Adolf Böhm, a leading Jew from Vienna.
In the summer of 1935, then holding the rank of SS-Untersturmführer, Mildenstein attended the 19th Congress of the Zionist Organization in Lucerne, Switzerland, as an observer attached to the German Jewish delegation.
Mildenstein's pro-Zionist line was overtaken by events, and after a dispute with Heydrich in 1936 he was removed from his post and transferred to the Foreign Ministry's press department. He had fallen out of favour because migration to Palestine was not happening quickly enough. His departure from the SD also saw a shift in SS policy, marked by the publication of a pamphlet written by Eichmann warning of the dangers of a strong Jewish state in the Middle East
"""