My apologies for the silence these last few days - that
other timeline of mine has been hoarding my concentration.
Just one further thought about the 45-minute episodes. For Doctor Who, the BBC also created 15-minute "making of" episodes called Doctor Who Confidential that could be shown after each 45-minute Dr Who episode to fill up a full hour in the scedule. These were also fairly cheap to produce, so helped to offset the costs of the actual stories. Perhaps the same idea could be used for Harry Potter - call it the Hogwarts Files.
I like that. By the time we bump up to 45 minutes (perhaps c. 2003? Close to the OTL return of
Doctor Who),
The Adventures of Harry Potter will be a veritable
event.
Sinister Stephen Fry!
That might be particularly jarring/shocking precisely because nobody would expect him to be a villain. On the other hand it could lead to a "narrowed it down to the guy I recognise" effect because you wouldn't expect to see Stephen Fry in a role as minor as what the audience is supposed to think Quirrell is.
I can see them really emphasizing the comedic aspects of Quirrell's personality with Fry in the role, making him seem (to the minority of viewers who haven't read the first book) to be the obvious comic relief character - the Dogberry of Hogwarts, if you will. Which makes it even
more jarring later on, of course.
Thande said:
Interestingly I remember a documentary about/with JK Rowling at the height of Pottermania in 2000/2001, and she actually mentioned that specific effect as being crap in the film (well, reading between the lines). She had this sketch of her own of what the wall opening is supposed to look like and said something about Chris Columbus ignoring that when she'd shown it to him. So quite perceptive on your part to note that...
I remember seeing that, actually, back in the day. She was relatively diplomatic about it, but yes, it was pretty obvious that she thought the effect was terrible (which it was - the parting of the Red Sea in
The Ten Commandments looked
far more convincing!) Her interpretation of it was more like a magical portal actually appearing
in the wall.
Thande said:
Yeah, I may be being naive here because my experience of children's TV is from a few years earlier, when the questionable use of CGI was limited to things like Virtually Impossible, where it sort of actually made sense.
I'm only a few years younger than you, but it really is quite remarkable what a difference that small age gap makes.
Thande said:
This may be wish fulfilment on my part because as I've mentioned in our PMs (discussing Sonic and Mario media) it annoys me when a more obscure form of the media comes up with interesting and effective plots that would work well transferred to the mainstream form (in that case games, in this case films) and these are invariably ignored in favour of something simplistic and rubbish with gaping plot holes that a hack slapped together in five minutes.
I definitely see where you're coming from here, and I am willing to allow that it's a possibility in this timeline. Knowing what we know about studio executives, it's hard for me to imagine them being sophisticated enough to not throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to the DCAU, but hey. They tried practically
everything to get both Batman
and Superman off the ground IOTL, so perhaps, in their greater desperation ITTL, they might try something like this?
It might depend upon the timing. Fry had a nervous breakdown in 1995 while appearing in a west end play. He walked out of the show (causing it to close early) and disappeared for a few days. It therefore wouldn't be surprising that he appeared in a minor role to try and re-establish his career.
Good point, I'd forgotten about that (but I remember it now you've said). Indeed I think his role in the Harry Potter audiobooks and pushing the Potter phenomenon WAS part of the way he reestablished himself. So this makes a lot of sense. Of course, it might be a bit wince-inducing for that reason for the viewers to see Fry playing someone who effectively has magical schizophrenia and has an insane breakdown at the end...
I was vaguely aware of his nervous breakdown when I suggested him for Quirrell, because the obvious reality subtext there would, I think, make him more chillingly effective in the role. Granted, it's rather meta-casting (within the context of TTL), but as OTL has shown, Fry has discussed his mental condition at great length, and I think he might see this part as an opportunity to come to terms with it. (Hugh Laurie would almost certainly make a better Quirrell, but it's harder to cast him in the role.)
I imagine there will be homosexual subtext in whichever role he takes or he will claim there is. I loved Blackadder and Jeeves and Wooster but I am not a fan how he has inserted homosexuality into the characters through interviews or how all the latest movies I see with him as a side role have them adding it to preexisting characters. It just seems shoehorned.
Everybody does that now, though. It's what's in "vogue". Probably because the concept of the "romantic friendship" is so alien to our modern-day society (at least among men).
IMHO, the increasingly fast translations also had to do with the phenomenon that a huge load of Germans discovered that they were able to read an English novel in the original version. The later HP volumes manged to climb the charts in the English version over here and I guess, that for a lot of readers those were the first, maybe only books, they voluntarily read in English. This, of course, put quite a pressure on the German publishing house (and Wikipedia says that the situation in France was similar).
Thanks for sharing that, Hornla. It's really nice to get an inside perspective on one of the most economically significant world languages (EFIGS, to borrow from gaming terminology). Speaking of which, if any Romance readers would like to share
their insights on the translations, you are all more than welcome to do so. Of course, English is the
lingua franca throughout Europe, but I wonder how much
Harry Potter might have helped that along. Obviously, there
was an organic component to it, at least in Germany.
Stephen Fry actually does have the voice and manner for Dumbledore (probably why he does the audiobooks) but he clearly doesn't have the physical appearance and it probably wouldn't be that convincing even with makeup.
No, we're not doing that. We're getting a genuinely elderly man to play Dumbledore. I'm more than happy to accept casting suggestions for the role - what's nice about it is that, from our vantage point, we know who will be alive a decade down the line from when he is first cast, so as to avoid a Richard Harris/Michael Gambon situation.
Thande said:
That's an interesting story. I wonder if something similar happened in France, where I imagine people would tend more to run around with their hair on fire about people buying the English versions.
When it comes to linguistic protectionism in
la Francophonie, Quebec will
always make France seem downright assimilationist in comparison
Thande said:
I own the first Potter book in both French and Romanian. I'm always interested to see whether they attempt to translate the character names or not into equivalents (the Romanians don't, the French do, but rather inconsistently).
You know, I probably
should own the French version, since the
Potter books are purportedly an excellent tool to increase your proficiency with foreign languages. Having said that, I just looked up their French titles:
Harry Potter and the School of Wizards? That almost makes
Sorcerer's Stone look good! (At least they kept all the later titles intact.)
Of course, to make it fit, they could set it up so that the Superman and Batman movies are released before, and build up to, Batman vs. Superman. Aronofsky might have to make some concessions on his story so that the two universes fit together (Bruce Wayne can't be a homeless guy in a Batsuit running around beating up petty criminals, but it could still be dark and gritty crime drama, without any supernatural elements in the first movie), but it would make the crossover seem even more like an event, kind of like how Marvel Studios built up toward The Avengers...
The interesting thing about OTL is that Warners and DC very much let their filmmakers run amok, for good (the Nolan trilogy) and for bad (
Superman Returns), at least by popular consensus. If these earlier directors are reined in for a greater cause, I wonder how it would affect development of those films. The giant albatross that any Superman film has around its neck is Jon Peters, of course, which makes it even
more difficult to see how a good movie could be made under those circumstances.
vultan said:
...speaking of which, since WB owns the movie rights to all of the major DC properties I know of, maybe they decide Batman vs. Superman itself should build up to an even bigger crossover event, if successful: a Justice League movie. To support it, they could release some standalone movies about each of the characters, like direct sequels to Superman: Flyby and Batman: Year One, a movies for Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern (John Stewart version, definitely), and Martian Manhunter, all leading up to a Justice League movie in about 2008 or thereabouts (and since Batman vs Superman would be directed by Wolfgang Petersen, logic demands that their second big crossover movie in less than a decade be directed by an even bigger director - maybe Robert Zemeckis or Ridley Scott?).
A big-screen
Wonder Woman film? The Holy Grail of superhero movies? That would be
tough to pull off - especially considering the
terrible track record for female superheroes to date IOTL. I think a Green Lantern film would work, though I don't know enough about John Stewart's character to say who might play him (you
do know they're going to suggest Will Smith, don't you?
). I don't see a Flash movie turning out well; I can already picture the derisive comparisons to Sonic the Hedgehog. Martian Manhunter has a
slightly bigger upside, but it needs a
very delicate touch. Any
Justice League movie could obviously turn out just as well as
The Avengers did IOTL, so no worries there.
vultan said:
And I agree with Thande when he says elements from the DCAU could be used in this movie franchise, particularly where it regards Green Lantern and the Martian Manhunter. Those two movies would probably be more space opera than superhero movie on their own, same with how Batman: Year One would be more crime drama than superhero movie.
All right, I'll agree with you there.
vultan said:
This massive , multi-movie, multi-franchise project would obviously replace the Harry Potter series for them in this scenario. I note that in our timeline, this is exactly what they're doing: now that HP has run it's course, they're ratcheting up the number of DC movies in production and preproduction, and the rumors of a Justice League movie on the horizon are even stronger than ever. In this scenario, they'd be forced to rely on the superheroes even earlier.
It makes for the ideal substitute to the eight
Potter films ITTL. Looks like my side project has a side project!
vultan said:
(Sorry I've gotten off course from the point of this project. I'm not really a Harry Potter fan, but the whole "fantasy-movies-more-inspired-by-LOTR-and-Star Wars/more-and-earlier-DC movies" angle that would logically
have to happen in this timeline has made me
very excited for this project.)
My timelines seem to be like Hollywood movies - start off small and intimate, but get
very bloated,
very quickly
Presumably, thanks to the Law of Allohistorical Irony, Marvel will instead pursue standalone films with no overarching "The Verse" continuity. Which isn't so farfetched given that their first entries into the superhero film boom of the 2000s were indeed like that (and they still make some such ones).
I think that's a fairly safe bet. It appeals to my sense of irony
Marvel superhero movies instead being produced as standalones is a interesting possibility, though I wonder how Marvel Studios gaining semi-autonomy will affect things.
Okay - I'll ask the million-dollar question: what does this mean for
One More Day?
Were there plans for more DC movies in the early 2000's besides Zatanna?
You know, that's an excellent question. I don't know; that's something that merits further research.
Fry could have been either a good Horace Slughorn, IMHO...or perhaps Cornelius Fudge. With a bit of a stretch, also Uncle Vernon.
I actually liked Fry for Ollivander, but there's no way I (or they) would waste him on a role
that tiny. If he's cast in any role other than Quirrell, I agree it would be Fudge.
Hörnla said:
I always presumed that Harry himself hailed from somewhere in SouthEastern Wales, due to Hagrid stating at the very beginning, when transfering him to the Dursleys, that he "fell asleep over Bristol". Drawing and contiuing a line from Surrey over Bristol brings you pretty much into the region of Newport/Cardiff.
From what I understand, the reference to Bristol was the first of her many,
many shout-outs to the West Country, which as you note was the region in which she was born and raised - and, it should be noted,
Hagrid was played with a West Country accent on Rowling's specific instructions, so it's probably more about where
he lives.
Yes, I know that Wales and the West Country aren't the same thing. I'm sorry if the previous paragraph didn't make that clear.
I would say Godric's Hollow is probably somewhere in the Gloucestershire/Wiltshire region.
Along with about half the locations in
Harry Potter
Okay, let's drop the casting bomb. As it stands right now, this is my choice for The Boy Who Lived himself: Gabriel Thomson. From what I can gather, he was either the runner-up, or at least on the shortlist, IOTL. Note that the
Harry Potter and the Secret Chamberpot of Azerbaijan parody for Comic Relief that I linked to earlier even alluded to Thomson
again, as apparently there were rumblings about him
replacing Radcliffe for the second film IOTL! He's definitely on the older end of the age range, born on October 27, 1986, and would be thirteen during filming of the first season. (Radcliffe was born on July 23, 1989, and was indeed eleven during production of the first film).
Here is his Wikipedia page, and
here is his IMDb page. His most famous role IOTL is that of Michael Harper on the American-style Britcom (now
there's a contradiction!)
My Family, which would be butterflied away (or at least his casting therein would be). I'm also looking at his father on that program, Robert Lindsay, as a candidate for Snape. Note that the only cast member to appear in any of the
Harry Potter films IOTL was Zoe Wanamaker, who appeared as Madam Hooch in the first film.
I think that should be sufficient to get the ball rolling on casting discussions!