Hanseatic America

[historyfool]

So over in this thread I mentioned a concept for a TL I never really developed very far (like a lot of other ideas). @Ursogulos had valid questions to my basic description over there, but I did not want to derail that thread. I also thought it more likely to start a debate in its own. I don´t have all the answers, as it really was only a rough concept with some notes on possible developments. Thus the idea might actually benefit from poking holes in it or filling them. To start with here the description I gave, slightly expanded to adress at least in some way the questions posted.

My initial POD was for a (fictional) shipowner and merchant from Hamburg around 1340-1350 to decide that it might be beneficial to be out of sight and reach of the local authorities for a couple of years while tempers coold down. He decides against going to the med like other Hanse long-range trading missions and instead follows up tales of the Viking settlements in Greenland - slightly before the vanishing of the western Viking settlement there. Some Hanseatic ships were well capable of making the journey, even though the preference for navigation was still to hug the coast. Not satisfied with local goods he presses on and trades for furs in otl Quebec. It is not hugely profitable, but enough to produce some interest in Hamburg, especially with his description of abundant fish and timber in the region. These goods are less valuable than fur over long distances, but given the lasting conflict with Scandinavia and tensions with various Russian principalities in the second half of the 14th century as well as the declining fish populations in Northern Europe some in the Hanse like to have another option. Then there is the possibility that the sea beyond these lands (the Hudson Bay) may offer a route to Asia.

Over the next decades a few ships make the journey each year, some permanent trading posts are established, slowly become self-sufficient and largely rely on the fur trade for profit - similiar to otl French, Dutch etc. colonies in the region. They explore along main waterways in the North West and establish a trade network. For a long time the transatlantic trade remains small enough that few in Europe take note of it even within the Hanse. The large powers with an Atlantic coast are in the period focused on affairs closer to home (especially HYW, Reconquista). But by the mid 15th century technology has advanced enough to allow easier direct travel across the Atlantic (to the detriment of the briefly revived Greenland settlements), the distraction of the larger powers declines and it is has become increasingly hard to ignore how large and potentially ressource rich these new lands are. As a real colonisation by larger powers starts the Hanseatic settlements in Northeast-America - by now self-governing according to imperial town privileges - are slowly sidelined, although at first not simply swallowed up due to their claim to HRE protection (which at that time still meant something) and their Hanseatic connections. The few rival settlements established by non-Imperial traders may or may not have the same luck. The new powers also have to deal with a number of native polities that have benefitted from the trade routes and goods the Hanse towns established. I had been thinking mainly of a strengthened Haudenosaune and maybe a Cahokia (or at least the wider Mississipean culture), whose wide ranging trade network and agriculture were revived by the newly introduced goods and technology.

As I said, it is really a barebones idea in my large folder of undeveloped tl and story ideas, but as the topic came up I thought it could be interesting to discuss it. Which unadressed problems are there with this idea? How develops colonisation if it starts in the North, not the Caribbean. What would be realistically the effect of a number of smallish, semi-independent European settlement from say otl New York to Manitoba as the start of real colonisation? What if at least some of the tribes in NA have time to adapt to European presence and technology - which also is less advanced than later - because the contact is for a long time almost entirely through trade?

 

[Ursogulos]

description of abundant fish and timber in the region.

This is not enough

but given the lasting conflict with Scandinavia and tensions with various Russian principalities in the second half of the 14th century

Some will look for alternative routes anyway. But how long until they are dismissed and sidelined as mere cloud walking of a few individuals? They need something to peak the interest....

Then there is the possibility that the sea beyond these lands (the Hudson Bay) may offer a route to Asia.

And voila, comes this theory which will surely do the job. The lucrative goods of Asia are just too much to ignore even if it means one has to spend a few decades in spending Timber, fish and fur trade. Some guy has to pop a theory like this and he will likely make the same mistake in calculation of Earth's circumference.

Also, better use relevant tags to attract potential interested users.

 

[Arkenfolm]

This is oddly not as ASB as it seems given the constant conflict between Denmark and northern German cities and early Hansa posts in Bergen, where all trade with Iceland and Greenland passed. Didrik Pining, OTL explorer of Greenland, at one point worked as a privateer for the Hanseatic League before entering Danish service. If the exports of codfish begin a bit before OTL and this trade spreads to Greenland (which is rather plausible), then the Hanseatic League has reason to be active in that area, particularly if they can reduce royal authority in Norway much as they and their allies had done in Denmark.

Presumably this state of affairs is good for Norwegian nobles who after the Black Death killed 2/3 of the populace, could rebuild and do as they please under a weak king without worry of Swedish intervention. This would likely give the Hanseatic League the real power in Iceland and Greenland through appointing the governors. For that matter, spreading codfish trade to Greenland would save the colony, since assuming it can be garrisoned against Inuit raids, there's no reason to emigrate to Iceland or Norway and it gives Greenland an easy to obtain trade good compared to walrus ivory and falcons. Fishing crews need a place to resupply and dry their catch after all.

Since Greenlanders knew about North America and its value in terms of hunting (walrus ivory and pelts), Hanseatic merchants might follow this route too. This, I believe, would be the main area of exploitation, since Labrador (Markland) is both close and offers practically everything the areas further south does. Even the climate is perfectly fine--the Norse Greenlanders would gladly settle there and could maintain the same lifestyle or even better--climate in southern Labrador is on par with or better than the climate in southernmost Greenland, and there's dense forests to exploit. Given their experience in that environment, I think they'd be the main group of settlers and fur traders, perhaps with some Hansa men acting as leaders of the expeditions. It could take them many decades to finally venture south however, since Labrador is a big place. Like OTL, natives will cluster around the trading posts for European goods and extra food in exchange for game they hunted.

Over the next decades a few ships make the journey each year, some permanent trading posts are established, slowly become self-sufficient and largely rely on the fur trade for profit - similiar to otl French, Dutch etc. colonies in the region. They explore along main waterways in the North West and establish a trade network. For a long time the transatlantic trade remains small enough that few in Europe take note of it even within the Hanse. The large powers with an Atlantic coast are in the period focused on affairs closer to home (especially HYW, Reconquista). But by the mid 15th century technology has advanced enough to allow easier direct travel across the Atlantic (to the detriment of the briefly revived Greenland settlements), the distraction of the larger powers declines and it is has become increasingly hard to ignore how large and potentially ressource rich these new lands are. As a real colonisation by larger powers starts the Hanseatic settlements in Northeast-America - by now self-governing according to imperial town privileges - are slowly sidelined, although at first not simply swallowed up due to their claim to HRE protection (which at that time still meant something) and their Hanseatic connections.

Not necessarily. It would be part of the Norwegian crown, even if the Norwegian crown is a puppet of its nobles who in turn are more or less Hanseatic League puppets. The claim to Vinland (and presumably Markland with it) was taken seriously enough in the 15th/16th century that Christian II of Denmark (also king of Norway) planned on sending expeditions to assert his claim. But TTL, the claim is already asserted.

The few rival settlements established by non-Imperial traders may or may not have the same luck. The new powers also have to deal with a number of native polities that have benefitted from the trade routes and goods the Hanse towns established. I had been thinking mainly of a strengthened Haudenosaune and maybe a Cahokia (or at least the wider Mississipean culture), whose wide ranging trade network and agriculture were revived by the newly introduced goods and technology.

Haudenosaunee/League of the Iroquois probably didn't exist until the mid-16th century (the date of its founding is controversial, but one chief in the 17th century claimed it was only IIRC "2 generations" old at the time of European colonisation), although these multi-tribal leagues of Iroquoian peoples were probably destined to be formed once the area became richer and more developed since the Huron/Wyandot and possibly the Laurentian Iroquoians were organised similarly. This development OTL happened in the 16th century because of Spanish goods from the south and other European trade from the coasts, so you'd probably speed it up a century or two. Speaking of the Laurentians, they could be the ones to benefit and not be totally destroyed like OTL if the initial trade is slower and on their terms.

Cahokia had long been abandoned by the mid-14th century and its successor across the river in modern St. Louis was a powerful chiefdom but nothing truly extraordinary in terms of population. It would be almost impossible to have such a large and powerful chiefdom in that region in the Little Ice Age since environmental degradation combined with the cooler climate transformed much of the once fertile land into prairies that are challenging to plough with only stone tools. Not to mention the US Midwest would be on the receiving end of a Beaver Wars analogue at some point, maybe a generation or two earlier. By the early 15th century, all the large and complex chiefdoms were in the Deep South and adjacent areas.

As I said, it is really a barebones idea in my large folder of undeveloped tl and story ideas, but as the topic came up I thought it could be interesting to discuss it. Which unadressed problems are there with this idea? How develops colonisation if it starts in the North, not the Caribbean. What would be realistically the effect of a number of smallish, semi-independent European settlement from say otl New York to Manitoba as the start of real colonisation? What if at least some of the tribes in NA have time to adapt to European presence and technology - which also is less advanced than later - because the contact is for a long time almost entirely through trade?

The result would be OTL but a few decades earlier. You'd have more powerful confederations/chiefdoms on the coast like the Iroquois, Powhatan's confederacy, etc. Maybe they'd form by the mid-late 15th century instead of the mid-late 16th century. Perhaps there'd even be a Metis population which would control functions like metalsmithing, although most likely for a long time the natives would remain dependent on European trade, especially those who have no incentive to adopt agriculture like the Labrador natives. And it doesn't really change the initial native response to Europeans, since the East Coast tribes and confederations have plenty of reason to permit Europeans to settle there since they would believe they're mostly there to trade as allies. Far to the south, someone like DeSoto could still rampage through the South since the Mississippians are unlike to have much in the way of iron weapons, horses, crossbows, or guns.

 

[Jürgen]

I would suggest a good POD would be that Bergen somehow became independent or semi-independent and joined the Hanseatic League and kept control over Norway's overseas possessions.

 

[Talus I of Dixie]

Not necessarily. It would be part of the Norwegian crown, even if the Norwegian crown is a puppet of its nobles who in turn are more or less Hanseatic League puppets. The claim to Vinland (and presumably Markland with it) was taken seriously enough in the 15th/16th century that Christian II of Denmark (also king of Norway) planned on sending expeditions to assert his claim. But TTL, the claim is already asserted.

I mean, that covers the protection part i'd think, but i guess that the important here is that they're self-ruled. And i don't think that it would be too hard for a puppeteered-Norway to just grant city charters for the Vinland settlements at the Hansa's will. Also, it would be less administrative expenses, and i swear that nobles tend to love to decrease those.