Greece gaining the following territories

Status
Not open for further replies.
How about Germany sending units and equipment to the new front vis a vis the British in the Middle East? Wouldn't take much to have Syria or Iraq change hands, nor was Iran exactly fond of London.



Dementor, true in the sense that Hungarians were not ethnically cleansed en masse from the territories taken after WWI while the Turks were, so Turkey is certain to be less forgiving.

Would Germany be able to supply them properly though? I am quite sure the British will do everything in there power to stop them from getting near the oil fields and bringing more potential axis members into the war.
 
The British forces available to occupy Vichy Syria and put down the Iraqi revolt OTL are fairly conclusive evidence that the British did not have much left to deploy to the region.
 
You've just made Greeks the minority in their own state. Without ethnic cleansing on a scale that would make Hitler blush, this 'Greece' is just Turkey with a different flag. And that's the best outcome. The most likely outcome is Greece being torn apart by the revolting Turks & Muslims.
In fact I think that you might be wrong,what aereas do you have in mind?
 
Is there any possible way for Greece to gain the following territories in 20th century (earlier if not possible in the 20th century) as part of the country of Greece?: Modern Day Greece, Cyprus, Crete, All Islands in the Aegan, North Epirus, Eastern Thrace, Gallipoli Peninsula and the Queen Of Cities Itself, Constantinople? I don't mind the answer with a little bit of ASB, as long as it isn't completely stupid.
Yes,it is possible with certain parametres,but I have to correct a mistake in your assumptions;Crete does belong to Greece,and,it is also in the extension of the Aegean which is the Cretan sea;so you speak about Imbros and Tenedos.I have also observed that all the answers that claim possibility or impossibility,do not give relevant reasons for their arguments.
I also observe that you don't claim Eastern Rumelia which you should and you don't claim the area of Smyrna which is a great weapon because at one point you hold it.
Your diplomatic situation starts with the treaty of Bucharest that officially marks the end of the Balcan Wars.There,mr Venizelos,prime minister of Greece,could have raised two points as outstanding issues: first that Greece would not recognise any part of Albania, which was then under formation,that contained a substantial greek population and,Greece disputes the illegal occupation by Bulgaria of Eastern Romylia(occupied without cause in 1885 and populated almost 48% by Greeks in its southern part and that it reserved its claims on both issues to be submitted to a council of great European powers in the near forseable future.
In WWI GB asked Greece to participate in the operation for the opening of Dardanelles with a corps of 30000 men in exchange for Eastern Thrace including Constantinople;Venizelos only had to stage his coup 18 months earlier since there was enough evidence that queen Olga was a spy for her brother,the Keiser,and that was enough to tople the pro-German monarchy and enter the war on the side of the allies.However Greece could have invaded southern Albania in 1918 and hold Northern Epirus because Albania had broken the treaty of Corcyra(Corfu) of 1916 guaranteeing autonomy to Northern Epirus.The part of Anatolia that Greece occupied and the part of Eastern Thrace was in exchange for the Greek 1st Corps to fight in Crimaea with general Vraggel against the Bolshevics.Eastern Thrace and the city of Smyrna could have been kept by Greece if Venizelos had come into an agreement with Atatourk about an exchange of Eastern Thrace with Anatolia.The city of Smyrna was predominantly Greek and it could be kept.Atatourk could not cross to Eastern Thrace or threaten any islands in the Aegean without a fleet.The greeks of imbros and Tenedos were an absolute majority of the population and I don't see any difficulty of Greece holding them.Ditto for eastern rumelia where witith the treaty of peace greece could demand return of the refugee population and escort them with the army so they could occupy their houses and farms.
Finally Cyprus was an easy affair:The Americans and Nato had made a proposal to Georgios Papandreou government for a American/NATO military base in return for the unification of Cyprus with Greece,but Papandreou
rejected the sceme,however,he could have been persuaded to accept...
 
Last edited:
In fact I think that you might be wrong,what aereas do you have in mind?

The sole time it was ever even remotely possible the numbers for the least-ASB scenarios (which is smaller than the scenario layed out by the OP);

Greece - 5 million people (including 500,000 pre-population exchange 'Turk's' and Muslims).
Ottoman Territories - Just under 5 million, including between 500,000 to 1.5 million (depending on the year) Orthodox or Greeks, of course by the time of the OTL Population transfer alot of Greeks has left the region or been killed, so their'd be even fewer Greeks overall.

Thus as you can see adding any more territory and this Mega-Greece would go from being roughly split 50/50 Turkish and Greek to being Majority Turkish.
 
Last edited:
Basically the best outcome for Greece that is realistically possible is maybe gaining control of all of Thrace and the Turkish Aegean islands. This is the most reaalistic but very unlikely thing that could happen. Fankly Greece cant hold onto Anatolia because by this point its majority muslim and turkish and as others have said Greece cant keep a standing army forever.
 
Basically the best outcome for Greece that is realistically possible is maybe gaining control of all of Thrace and the Turkish Aegean islands. This is the most reaalistic but very unlikely thing that could happen. Fankly Greece cant hold onto Anatolia because by this point its majority muslim and turkish and as others have said Greece cant keep a standing army forever.

That is why i didn't ask for Anatolia as well, because it would impossible to hold with Greek troops alone and facing a hostile population, unless they had Russia willing to help them unconditionally (which they won't, by the well). As far as i can see, only the areas i asked for (and Eastern Rumelia) are the only ones that can be held realistically and not cause multiple wars with Turkey to reclaim, which if the Greeks tried to grab parts of Anatolia, would happen.
 
maybe gaining control of all of Thrace and the Turkish Aegean islands.

I was gonna say 'What Turkish Aegean Islands?' but then I remembered they do have two.

Actually, gaining Imbros and Tenedos is probably the only realistic additional territory Greece could get, but even then that's hardly assured, as IIRC the reason Turkey has both is because they're right in front of the Strait of Çanakkale.
 
I was gonna say 'What Turkish Aegean Islands?' but then I remembered they do have two.

Actually, gaining Imbros and Tenedos is probably the only realistic additional territory Greece could get, but even then that's hardly assured, as IIRC the reason Turkey has both is because they're right in front of the Strait of Çanakkale.

Then why not Eastern Thrace and Eastern Rumelia as well?
 
Then why not Eastern Thrace and Eastern Rumelia as well?

Because those two islands combined have less than 20,000 people in the modern day (and thus less in the past), Eastern Rumelia is Bulgarian (and would've had over a million people during the Balkan Wars) and thus is simply not going to happen and Eastern Thrace is not only right in front of Istanbul (and thus a equirement) but houses 12% of the Turkish population (8.9 million now, around 1.6 million at the end of WWI).
 
Basically the best outcome for Greece that is realistically possible is maybe gaining control of all of Thrace and the Turkish Aegean islands. This is the most reaalistic but very unlikely thing that could happen. Fankly Greece cant hold onto Anatolia because by this point its majority muslim and turkish and as others have said Greece cant keep a standing army forever.
F.B,Tongera doesn't mentioned Anatolia...
 
The sole time it was ever even remotely possible the numbers for the least-ASB scenarios (which is smaller than the scenario layed out by the OP);

Greece - 5 million people (including 500,000 pre-population exchange 'Turk's' and Muslims).
Ottoman Territories - Just under 5 million, including between 500,00 to 1.5 million (depending on the year) Orthodox or Greeks, of course by the time of the OTL Population transfer alot of Greeks has left the region or been killed, so their'd be even fewer Greeks overall.

Thus as you can see adding any more territory and this Mega-Greece would go from being roughly split 50/50 Turkish and Greek to being Majority Turkish.
That was not my question,but what territories exactly could not be claimed.
 
That was not my question,but what territories exactly could not be claimed.

The point is their's no way Greece is going to get any part of Anatolia at all, and extremely unlikely to get anything beyond what it got IOTL aside from the previously mentioned two islands, frankly Greece is lucky it got as much territory as it did, especially considering several parts of it Greeks were the minority.
 
Last edited:
I was gonna say 'What Turkish Aegean Islands?' but then I remembered they do have two.

Actually, gaining Imbros and Tenedos is probably the only realistic additional territory Greece could get, but even then that's hardly assured, as IIRC the reason Turkey has both is because they're right in front of the Strait of Çanakkale.
And who would contest eastern Thrace that was already occupied by the Greek army in 1922?
 
And who would contest eastern Thrace that was already occupied by the Greek army in 1922?

Turkey, with whom Greece could'nt have continued staying at war with, the Allies who would'nt want Greece to have that large an area, the Soviet Union who would'nt want it to either.
 
Because those two islands combined have less than 20,000 people in the modern day (and thus less in the past), Eastern Rumelia is Bulgarian (and would've had over a million people during the Balkan Wars) and thus is simply not going to happen and Eastern Thrace is not only right in front of Istanbul (and thus a equirement) but houses 12% of the Turkish population (8.9 million now, around 1.6 million at the end of WWI).
Iori,Eastern Thrace was firmly held by the Greek army and Constantinople was an International City occupied by the victorious powers;what makes you think that Turky could have changed the status quo ante? and since they couldn't do anything about it,the population of the city wouldn't have been today even half of what it was.
 
Last edited:
Iori,Eastern Thrace was firmly held by the Greek army and Constantinople was an International City occupied by the victorious powers;what makes you think that Turky could have changed the status quo ante? and since the couldn't do anything about it,the population of the city wouldn't have been today even half of what it was.

Turkey couldn't have changed the status quo, not without a navy to help cross the Bosphrous.
 
Turkey, with whom Greece could'nt have continued staying at war with, the Allies who would'nt want Greece to have that large an area, the Soviet Union who would'nt want it to either.
Not really,I hope you observed what I said that between the city of Constantinople and the Anatolia mainland was the Greek navy;the Turks could have tried...swimming across....and USSR was isolated and out of the picture and it didn't take part in the drafting of treaties,absorbed as it was in its civil war.After all Eastern Thrace is not such a big aerea(23.714 s klm).The matter rests on something completely different:If Venizelos had not held the elections of 1920,something he didn't have to do.The king would not have returned,the English would continue to support Greece and the Turks wouldn't have a hope of even reclaiming Constantinople from the European powers.
 
Last edited:
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top