For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

Yes M7 with has north korea but not china (This North Korea thing never made sense to me to be honest) . Honestly, I'm curious if we'll see a new group competing with the M7. Another think is the Coalition of Communist Countries for Spaceflight (CCCS). I am sorry but mexico would be a coup d'état the moment it was part of the communist bloc. We had the mention of the Brazilian space program, but besides that there are other powers, China being the most important. That could compete with the bloc.
We really don't know what China is like in this world. And North Korea does make som sense. China would want to bring people back from Mars and doesn't necessarily need to be as gung ho in the space race to give it national prestige, so might not judge reaching Mars as worth the cost. We also know that China and Canada are directly stated as having abstained from the Mars-7 talks. North Korea though has an explicit reason to to stay relevant on the world stage, and wouldn't care about making it a one way trip. That it turned out as well as it did for North Korea is the exact kind of chance stroke of luck that happens a lot in history.

And I see people still are hung up on Mexico despite the alternate history of the show having changed so much by the time that happened with respect to Soviet economic policy and American foreign policy, despite the things explicitly mentioned in the show, and despite who Verdugo is (which people still ignore).
 
Yes there will be manufacturing facilities in Earth Orbit, they can get Goldilocks material from Mars Orbit.

Zor
Eqxactly with stronger labor relations.

But I expect some of the deals with Happy Valley workers is M7 must agree no Intelligence agencies are allowed on Mars. Agents Bishop and Avilov would be viewed with utter hate and would be looked at like Charles Lively during the Coal Wars in Appalachia and Colorado in the early 20th century.
 
All this would further destabilize the Middle East during our version of the Arab Spring. The scary thing is that they are almost all under 30 years old, and have no love for democracy, corporate rule, Israel, and communism, and most have lived lives of abject poverty. They will want some representation, and they can get nuclear weapons...
 
We really don't know what China is like in this world.
Whatever situation China is in, it is superior to North Korea.
China would want to bring people back from Mars and doesn't necessarily need to be as gung ho in the space race to give it national prestige, so might not judge reaching Mars as worth the cost.
Right because China historically doesn't cares about the nation's honor. China has historically sacrificed much more for national prestige than North Korea. Let's be honest, it doesn't make any sense for North Korea to be on the M7 and countries like China aren't.
North Korea though has an explicit reason to to stay relevant on the world stage.
North Korea was never relevant at the global stage. It is occasionally mentioned in the international media when the obese dictator drops a missile into the sea near South Korea or Japan.
And I see people still are hung up on Mexico despite the alternate history of the show having changed so much by the time that happened with respect to Soviet economic policy and American foreign policy, despite the things explicitly mentioned in the show, and despite who Verdugo is (which people still ignore).
No, they are not ignoring. It simply doesn't make sense. You can believe Venezuela, it's further away and the relationship with the USSR is much better. Now Mexico literally has a border with the USA. The country would not accept a communist country in this proximity. In the same way that Russia invaded Ukraine, the USA would invade or carry out a coup in Mexico. There are better relationships and there is fantasy. Venezuela is more credible, communist Mexico on the US side is fantasy. The USA and the USSR are not allies, they have warmer relations. I doubt the USSR would complain about the US coup d'état in Mexico. It is the same as Poland, which is in the Soviet sphere, having a pro-US capitalist government. It's an act of aggression to say the least.
 
Whatever situation China is in, it is superior to North Korea.

Right because China historically doesn't cares about the nation's honor. China has historically sacrificed much more for national prestige than North Korea. Let's be honest, it doesn't make any sense for North Korea to be on the M7 and countries like China aren't.
Except it does because the show stated specifically that China abstained from the M-7 charter and is pursuing its own interests in space. Which may not include trying to get to Mars and instead be something closer to Earth where the return on investment is clearer and sooner.

North Korea was never relevant at the global stage. It is occasionally mentioned in the international media when the obese dictator drops a missile into the sea near South Korea or Japan.
Yes, North Korea hasn't been relevant, which is why they would be the ones to try and do something like a long shot Mars mission to gain that relevancy on the global stage. Which in the For All Mankind universe they seem to have succeeded in that goal.

No, they are not ignoring. It simply doesn't make sense. You can believe Venezuela, it's further away and the relationship with the USSR is much better. Now Mexico literally has a border with the USA. The country would not accept a communist country in this proximity. In the same way that Russia invaded Ukraine, the USA would invade or carry out a coup in Mexico. There are better relationships and there is fantasy. Venezuela is more credible, communist Mexico on the US side is fantasy. The USA and the USSR are not allies, they have warmer relations. I doubt the USSR would complain about the US coup d'état in Mexico. It is the same as Poland, which is in the Soviet sphere, having a pro-US capitalist government. It's an act of aggression to say the least.
So you are still ignoring that
1) the Soviets have adopted a hybrid market economy in the 80s, so what "communism" is and how it's perceived is not the same as it is in our universe
2) The world went to DEFCON 2 in 1983, something everyone keeps continuing to ignore as a major development in the history of the show that might be impacting people's decisions
3) Reagan is no longer president and by the late 80s when Mexico elects Verdugo President Hart has adopted a more accepting foreign policy in direct reaction to the Reagan hard line because of, you know, those hardline policies on another neighboring communist government almost leading to nuclear war. Twice now in this timeline.
4) Verdugo in OTL by the 80s was directing a merger of the Mexican Communist Party with more democratic socialist parties, was moderating his own position, and by 1988 supported Cardenas in the presidential election. His political trajectory in the For All Mankind world may well be similar what with the Soviets' own moderation of what "communism" is toward a more hybrid economy.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything in the For All Mankind timeline in the late 80s is the same as ours, when it is clearly not and it should not be expected to be 20 years, a full generation, after the POD.
 
Consider that another thing forgotten is that the U.S. military hasn't been in an actual conflict since 1954. That means no American or Soviet actually has any combat experience. Expect Oliver Stone to be a right-wing supporter of the military, calling for U.S. troops warning of the border crisis.
 
Consider that another thing forgotten is that the U.S. military hasn't been in an actual conflict since 1954. That means no American or Soviet actually has any combat experience. Expect Oliver Stone to be a right-wing supporter of the military, calling for U.S. troops warning of the border crisis.
Vietnam did happen.
 
Vietnam did happen.

But US involvement in it ended in 1970, so in-universe by Season 4, its been over thirty years since it ended and near fifty years since someone could have been born and served in it, so a majority chunk of the serving populace wont have been in active service, other than the moon marines (and possibly the Panama Crisis)
 
something closer to Earth where the return on investment is clearer and sooner.
What exactly? The best places on the moon are already controlled by the Russians and Americans.
Yes, North Korea hasn't been relevant, which is why they would be the ones to try and do something like a long shot Mars mission to gain that relevancy on the global stage.
Them trying something is likely, they still try today. The problem is that they can get to Mars. Honestly, them being able to go to the moon would be a huge achievement, especially alone. Now them going to Mars without help from the USSR and China is basically ABS. The country barely has electricity, the complex activity of building a rocket to Mars is far beyond them. South Africa during the aphartide era, has a better chance of reaching Mars.
1) the Soviets have adopted a hybrid market economy in the 80s, so what "communism" is and how it's perceived is not the same as it is in our universe
The "hybrid" system is state capitalism, the same as China does today.
2) The world went to DEFCON 2 in 1983, something everyone keeps continuing to ignore as a major development in the history of the show that might be impacting people's decisions
Yes, one of those decisions is not to have a communist government in Mexico. I doubt the USSR will complain. This is a two way street, which indicates that the spheres of influence are more solidified and less expansionist. A communist Mexico is literally a return to defcon 2. An intimate invasion of the US sphere of influence.
3) Reagan is no longer president and by the late 80s when Mexico elects Verdugo President Hart has adopted a more accepting foreign policy in direct reaction
Acceptance is one thing, cowardice and weakness is another. A USA that accepts Mexico into the sphere of the USSR is a country that does not have the power to protect its allies or itself. The simple fact that Mexico is in the Russian sphere breaks any trust with the capitalist countries of Latin America, Africa, Asia and Europe. If they actually accept this, this USA is weak. It's the only thing any country would see. Accepting a communist Venezuela would be acceptance.
4) Verdugo in OTL by the 80s was directing a merger of the Mexican Communist Party with more democratic socialist parties
It's less USSR more Yugoslavia. The USA killed Yugoslavia after the Cold War.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything in the For All Mankind timeline in the late 80s is the same as ours
You are operating on a very simplistic view of politics. Being a super power has duties and obligations, it's not just positive things. The first of these is to control your neighbors, your most intimate sphere of influence. If the USA cannot deal with Mexico, the country is not a super power. It's a powerful country, but the USA was that before it became a superpower. No country will look at the USA and think it is super power. No country will expect the US to use force, just words. Basically this is signing the death of the American empire. The European Union would have developed an army earlier, with France probably being the organizer of the European Union. Anti-communist Latin American countries will organize themselves without the USA, the same in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. Japan would become militarized, among other examples. Honestly, the simple fact that the USA accepted that Mexico was communist should be an entire episode, with the effect being the breakup of the American empire. With the USA accepting not to be the superpower on the capitalist side, but returning to its isolationist phase.
PS: another problem is the USA is liberalizing too quickly, when there is a hyperliberal phase you generate an aggressive reaction. As seen in the ussr, this america would have a trump or something like that. Furthermore, we have the issue of homosexuality in the rest of the world.
 
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There really does seem to be a strain of thought, not just in this thread but elsewhere on this website, where something is internally consistent within the narrative of a timeline, but people just can't view that perspective and instead insist on comparing things from an external perspective to OTL even when that doesn't make sense as a comparison point. It's sad because the inability to actually view things from the perspective of the timeline, and insisting on this constant comparison to OTL as a measure of plausibility, really hurts the genre of alternate history by limiting the perspectives a narrative is able to take. I'm very glad that the writers of For All Mankind understand that what matters most above all in terms of an alternate history is the internal consistency of the narrative and that comparisons to OTL are only really useful in examining or demonstrating how things have diverged and are really irrelevant to determining "plausibility" (which itself is a loaded and often useless term for looking at alternate history).
 
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