For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

Interdimensional Nomad

wwbgdiaslt said:
This is presumably why Morozova is being given the old KGB once over. Korzhenko is going to be looking for any donkey to pin the tail on once the abuses at Happy Valley come out, and Morozova, is an easy person to pin it on, she ordered the interrogations, backed Margo's suggestions and ultimately lost Russia and Earth the asteroid riches.

But yes, presumably there was some sort of declaration off screen, a fully independent city state or a client state of a neutral country. I guess we will find out in 18 months.
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I'm not sure I see full independence this early, but I can definitely see Earth taking a more hands-off approach towards Mars from here on. It seems like the situation ended with a negotiated settlement with Mars clearly having the upper hand; looked like the workers' families were allowed to come at the end (I'm guessing Lee's wife was already smuggled out of North Korea and could join the rest on booking passage to Mars; I really wish they'd show us more about how she escaped). Earth probably had to negotiate in good faith to get access to the asteroid's spoils. I don't see any viable way to militarily force Mars to fall in line; that would require a significant buildup of space-based military capabilities, and any one country trying that would immediately see everyone else crying foul (especially after the events of Season 2). Nor do I think making them submit by slowing or stopping resupply flights is viable; most or all of the resupply ships are owned and operated by Helios, and Dev is now on Mars. If no one else Helios on its own can keep the transport link to Mars open. So I could see a general amnesty for Dev, Ed, and the asteroid heist crew being agreed to. And there's the fact that the US in particular is dealing with the political fallout of allowing torture there (I can see the parallels to Abu Ghraib in OTL 2003).

What I do predict for season 4 is that the Soviet Union and North Korea will have withdrawn from the M7 Alliance. The Soviets will probably blame the US for the asteroid heist, for letting it happen under their noses, for Margo, etc. And with the hardliner coup, they were already having increasing trouble getting along before it. The Cold War will probably restart to some extent. North Korea meanwhile nearly got its section of the base invaded, and Lee and his wife have seemingly defected by the end. A very bad look for them, and they'll probably blame the other M7 members and Helios for it.
 
Zor

Zor

Interdimensional Nomad said:
Snippity do da
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Doing so means forfeiting both the payout on the Goldilocks and any future revenue that might come in from subsequent Asteroid capture operations launched by Happy Valley. For the Norks in particular, this would mean forfeiting a lot of money compared to their size. It also means that said value goes mostly to the US and Pals. Instead I'd imagine the Soviets and North Korea would continue to be involved in the M7, BUT on the same time build their own interplanetary ships and cultivate their own base on Mars where they get to do their own thing.

Also naming the mining operation after a fallen Cosmonaut is indicative of continued Soviet involvement in the program. Ed might push for the name no matter what, but if the USSR fucked off you'd have Brits pushing for Herschel, Germans pushing for Kepler, the French pushing for Cassini, Americans wanting a classical name, etc and all of them responding to Kunetzov with "that's a Soviet Name, we're not accepting it as they peaced out".

Zor
 
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ajm8888

ajm8888

Zor said:
Doing so means forfeiting both the payout on the Goldilocks and any future revenue that might come in from subsequent Asteroid capture operations launched by Happy Valley. For the Norks in particular, this would mean forfeiting a lot of money compared to their size. Instead I'd imagine the Soviets and North Korea would continue to be involved in the M7, BUT on the same time build their own interplanetary ships and cultivate their own base on Mars where they get to do their own thing.

Also naming the mining operation after a fallen Cosmonaut is indicative of continued Soviet involvement in the program. Ed might push for the name no matter what, but if the USSR fucked off you'd have Brits pushing for Herschel, Germans pushing for Kepler, the French pushing for Cassini, Americans wanting a classical name, etc and all of them responding to Kunetzov with "that's a Soviet Name, we're not accepting it as they peaced out".

Zor
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But I bet you Korzhenko will start a new cold war with the US and blame them for this economic problem involving the meteor. Korzhenko and his government will see little reason not to try and make their own things and look less at cooperation with the West.
 

wilcoxchar

mattep74 said:
I miss how the show was in S1 and S2, mostly about space exploration. Not so much politics, black market and everyone pissed at eachother
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Season 1, when the show was about the politics of civil rights, the changing role of women and their place in the workforce and society, and how both of those are used as political pawns in the game of hearts and minds during the Cold War?

Or season 2, when the show was about the political struggle for control between civilian and military organizations, how the escalation of the Cold War militarizes areas that should not be militarized, and how the politics of breaking down the walls thrown up by such escalation to create international dialogue?

One of the best thing the show has done throughout is show that space exploration is inherently intertwined with politics and that you can't separate the two.
 
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Zor

Zor

ajm8888 said:
But I bet you Korzhenko will start a new cold war with the US and blame them for this economic problem involving the meteor. Korzhenko and his government will see little reason not to try and make their own things and look less at cooperation with the West.
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Agreed

Zor
 
ajm8888

ajm8888

Zor said:
Agreed

Zor
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Irina is had to be the scapegoat in the government. Korzhenko couldn't be it, Irinia brought in Margo, Irina gave Margo all that power, it remains to be seen if Sergei's killer was ordered to do so by Irina but Margo thought she was. It matters little what the truth is. Irina is at best forcibly retired from the space agency and likely will be out of policy making on Soviet Space programs.

Korzhenko strikes me as a pot stirrer and it depends on who he is facing in the US in 2012. But he could be facing internal turmil as Gorby brought in some freedoms and that can cause issues.
 
Zor

Zor

We're out of a political landscape which directly correlates with OTL. Arguably this was the case in Season 3 as the Soviet Union was still going strong in the 1990s even if international tensions had diffused from the extremes of the 80s, but it's really pronounced in the 2000s. No Fukuyama "end of history" view of things, no 9/11, no War on Terror, the Middle East is largely an irrelevance due to the death of the oil industry (rest in piss), the internet had developed on a radically different path and humanity has a firm foothold on Luna and Mars.

Whatever the 2010s is going to be like in For All Mankind, it's not going to be the Obama era. Even if the Republicans screwed the pooch so bad that Obama wins in a landside, it won't our situation.

Zor
 
ajm8888

ajm8888

Zor said:
We're out of a political landscape which directly correlates with OTL. Arguably this was the case in Season 3 as the Soviet Union was still going strong in the 1990s even if international tensions had diffused from the extremes of the 80s, but it's really pronounced in the 2000s. No Fukuyama "end of history" view of things, no 9/11, no War on Terror, the Middle East is largely an irrelevance due to the death of the oil industry (rest in piss), the internet had developed on a radically different path and humanity has a firm foothold on Luna and Mars.

Whatever the 2010s is going to be like, it's not going to be the Obama era.

Zor
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Maybe we finally get the Cold War going hot?
 

PandaPun7

wilcoxchar said:
Another fun thing about this season. The premiere was called Glasnost, and the finale is called Perestroika.
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Another wonderful season! Possibly the best depiction of alternate history in a show, there's still grounded history after the divergence making it believable.

Also that's a cool observation, didn't make that connection at first.
 
Zor

Zor

wilcoxchar said:
The Amazon Man in the High Castle series was being produced several months before The New Order came out.
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Which does not really change my point. W:TNO was announced about a year before it was released, had been in development for years beforehand and it was a big name game which got a lot of media attention. I won't say that The Man in the High Castle was a response to the New Order, but I would say that the idea was more broadly sold to millions by the time the series was released.

Zor
 
ajm8888

ajm8888

Zor said:
Which does not really change my point. W:TNO was announced about a year before it was released, had been in development for years beforehand and it was a big name game which got a lot of media attention. I won't say that The Man in the High Castle was a response to the New Order, but I would say that the idea was more broadly sold to millions by the time the series was released.

Zor
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Look no matter what I want to see more alternate history shows.
 

Kaiser Tito

No idea why I never posted during the season. Going political for a minute after a decade of Gorbachev's reforms, how likely is the Warsaw Pact splitting after the coup? Personally I can see Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, and Bulgaria forming an intermarium alliance and even if the Soviets recover from the chaos too quickly for the bloc to unify I can still see Mexico, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia joining NATO out of defiance.
 
Zor

Zor

Kaiser Tito said:
No idea why I never posted during the season. Going political for a minute after a decade of Gorbachev's reforms, how likely is the Warsaw Pact splitting after the coup? Personally I can see Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, and Bulgaria forming an intermarium alliance and even if the Soviets recover from the chaos too quickly for the bloc to unify I can still see Mexico, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia joining NATO out of defiance.
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CCCS is some pretty solid glue, especially given the trillions of dollars from Godilocks alone.

Zor
 

holycookie

ajm8888 said:
As is the states M7 countries will get a piece of the pie.
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Yes M7 with has north korea but not china (This North Korea thing never made sense to me to be honest) . Honestly, I'm curious if we'll see a new group competing with the M7. Another think is the Coalition of Communist Countries for Spaceflight (CCCS). I am sorry but mexico would be a coup d'état the moment it was part of the communist bloc. We had the mention of the Brazilian space program, but besides that there are other powers, China being the most important. That could compete with the bloc.
 
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