Fascists takes power in France in 1934

Supreme

Banned
In 1934 there were big riots by the extreme right, let's say they took power through a coup.

In this scenario, how would relations with Germany be? Hitler tried by all means to have good relations with the French but the French democrats simply rejected him.

If the fascists take power, will France remain neutral in eastern affairs? Could there be a Franco-German alliance?
 
The exact opposite, the french extreme right was militantly anti-german and would invade Germany at the slightest provocation like the re-militarization of the Rhine.
 
Lots of potentials here ! The most salient one that comes to mind is what happens to the French left....civil war spanish style? Exile, possibly to Spain and then Franco has more opposition and doesn't win ?
 
I'm not sure why French fascists would have good relations with nazi-Germany. The Germans would still want Alsace-Lorraine back. Although the USSR might be a common enemy, the French surely wouldn't want Germany to gain a lot in the east and get stronger so the Germans would try a round 3 for AL. A fascist France might have worse relations with the UK, but that would probably make it more likely to ally with Poland and/or Italy.
 
Very interesting idea! I just can’t imagine a Franco-German alliance if EITHER one of them is far-right, as they both want to achieve a “Greater German Reich” and/or “France’s natural borders” or whatever. Probably more likely for the fighting to take place earlier.
It would also be very interesting to see what happens with the UK. Due to their policy of Appeasement, they would most likely stay neutral in this conflict due to not wanting to start a larger, Second Great War. As for the Soviets, maybe a loose alliance with the British but also maybe not, they’re really kind of a wild card here.
But yeah, this idea has lots of potential!
 
Oh yeah, and I didn’t think of Italy! If they pick a side, they will probably choose the French one, but then again they also have the issue of Corsica and Savoy, and France could also try to claim Piedmont and maybe Sardinia if they really wanted to. But still, I think that they would probably pick the French over the Germans if they were both fascist. However, I’m still kind of skeptical about this, and I could be wrong.
 
While I personally think the parties that would form the Front Populaire two years later would definitely attempt a counter-coup/revolution, leading to a civil war in France, assuming that the civil war doesn't happen, I think it likelier for France to align with the Italians.
The most likely target of French ambitions would be the Natural Borders, meaning that the Nazis would definitely not like having the French on their doorstep. In fact, the nature of the German political campaign in the Sarre in 35 might be enough for France to initiate a heavy-handed counter-campaign of voter intimidation through armed force, as well as likely stuffing the ballots.
 
I'm not sure why French fascists would have good relations with nazi-Germany. The Germans would still want Alsace-Lorraine back. Although the USSR might be a common enemy, the French surely wouldn't want Germany to gain a lot in the east and get stronger so the Germans would try a round 3 for AL. A fascist France might have worse relations with the UK, but that would probably make it more likely to ally with Poland and/or Italy.
I mean the nazi's did not care much about Südtirol either.
 
You’d definitely need to tinker a bit to get the Croix-de-Feu/La Cagoule/Faisceau/French hard right underground to actually emerge onto the political stage and seize power.

In my limited understanding, it seems the 1934 crisis was a premature test for the far-right in that it was able to mobilize pressure on the government, but the rioting was impromptu and the right-wing leagues were too divided which made the ‘putsch’ absolutely incoherent. The left was convinced that this a co-ordinated attempt to conquer the government, and treated it as such which drove them all together into a Popular Front. If you could avoid the rioting in Paris while having 1934 be a big rallying year for the hard right, also having the left succumb to infighting amongst the parties, it would improve their odds down the line. Significant electoral showings might harden the resolve of Colonel de la Rocque, who historically was cautious with his league. With the right chain of events, I could see them taking power proper in 1936 or 1937 in a timeline with a stronger French right and no Popular Front with an unpopular left government facing deadlock and inaction in the context of a rising Germany. I would imagine they triumph through either through a semi-legal electoral strategy a la the NSDAP or maaaaybe through a proper putsch (although the Colonel would probably not participate and I think it would trigger civil war).

I think this state would be a mix of anti-semitic policies, strong pro-natalism, corporatism and state-managed labor organizations, a strong anti-German policy, and a focus on militarizing France and crushing the left in the country. Think patriotic youth organizations, obsession with cleanliness of the national community, a cult of the soldier in the Great War, antipathy to established politics, you get the point. Also I think ironically the Stresa Front or some similar bloc would be more viable in this timeline considering that France could reconcile itself to Italy and would be more proactive in halting German expansion, while the British might hold their nose and bet on France in the coming war. I’d have to do more reading to get a grip on French territorial aspirations in this scenario though. I don’t think groups like the Croix-de-Feu were rabid expansionists, but I could be wrong.
 
France would be still very anti-German and be closer to Italy. They might directly intervene in Spain on behalf of Franco and support Italy in regards to Austria to keep Germany disunited. Strong ties with Poland for the same reason, tacit support for the Little Entene. Remilitarization of the Rhineland would mean war. This could ironically cause Germany to align with the USSR for good and lead to a very interesting scenario.
 
Gee, I can't imagine why.
Maybe it's because of those words written by Hitler against France in Mein Kampf? I dunno.
Adolf Hitler said:
Only in France there exists to-day more than ever before a profound
accord between the views of the stock-exchange, controlled by the Jews,
and the chauvinistic policy pursued by French statesmen. This identity
of views constitutes an immense, danger for Germany. And it is just for
this reason that France is and will remain by far the most dangerous
enemy. The French people, who are becoming more and more obsessed by
negroid ideas, represent a threatening menace to the existence of the
white race in Europe, because they are bound up with the Jewish campaign
for world-domination. For the contamination caused by the influx of
negroid blood on the Rhine, in the very heart of Europe, is in accord
with the sadist and perverse lust for vengeance on the part of the
hereditary enemy of our people, just as it suits the purpose of the cool
calculating Jew who would use this means of introducing a process of
bastardization in the very centre of the European Continent and, by
infecting the white race with the blood of an inferior stock, would
destroy the foundations of its independent existence.

France's activities in Europe to-day, spurred on by the French lust for
vengeance and systematically directed by the Jew, are a criminal attack
against the life of the white race and will one day arouse against the
French people a spirit of vengeance among a generation which will have
recognized the original sin of mankind in this racial pollution.
Adolf Hitler said:
By the winter of 1922-23 the intentions of the French must already have
been known for a long time back. There remained only two possible ways
of confronting the situation. If the German national body showed itself
sufficiently tough-skinned, it might gradually blunt the will of the
French or it might do--once and for all--what was bound to become
inevitable one day: that is to say, under the provocation of some
particularly brutal act of oppression it could put the helm of the
German ship of state to roundabout and ram the enemy. That would
naturally involve a life-and-death-struggle. And the prospect of coming
through the struggle alive depended on whether France could be so far
isolated that in this second battle Germany would not have to fight
against the whole world but in defence of Germany against a France that
was persistently disturbing the peace of the world.

I insist on this point, and I am profoundly convinced of it, namely,
that this second alternative will one day be chosen and will have to be
chosen and carried out in one way or another. I shall never believe that
France will of herself alter her intentions towards us, because, in the
last analysis, they are only the expression of the French instinct for
self-preservation. Were I a Frenchman and were the greatness of France
so dear to me as that of Germany actually is, in the final reckoning I
could not and would not act otherwise than a Clemenceau. The French
nation, which is slowly dying out, not so much through depopulation as
through the progressive disappearance of the best elements of the race,
can continue to play an important role in the world only if Germany be
destroyed. French policy may make a thousand detours on the march
towards its fixed goal, but the destruction of Germany is the end which
it always has in view as the fulfilment of the most profound yearning
and ultimate intentions of the French. Now it is a mistake to believe
that if the will on one side should remain only PASSIVE and intent on
its own self-preservation it can hold out permanently against another
will which is not less forceful but is ACTIVE. As long as the eternal
conflict between France and Germany is waged only in the form of a
German defence against the French attack, that conflict can never be
decided; and from century to century Germany will lose one position
after another. If we study the changes that have taken place, from the
twelfth century up to our day, in the frontiers within which the German
language is spoken, we can hardly hope for a successful issue to result
from the acceptance and development of a line of conduct which has
hitherto been so detrimental for us.

Only when the Germans have taken all this fully into account will they
cease from allowing the national will-to-life to wear itself out in
merely passive defence, but they will rally together for a last decisive
contest with France. And in this contest the essential objective of the
German nation will be fought for. Only then will it be possible to put
an end to the eternal Franco-German conflict which has hitherto proved
so sterile. Of course it is here presumed that Germany sees in the
suppression of France nothing more than a means which will make it
possible for our people finally to expand in another quarter. To-day
there are eighty million Germans in Europe. And our foreign policy will
be recognized as rightly conducted only when, after barely a hundred
years, there will be 250 million Germans living on this Continent, not
packed together as the coolies in the factories of another Continent but
as tillers of the soil and workers whose labour will be a mutual
assurance for their existence.
 

Garrison

Donor
In 1934 there were big riots by the extreme right, let's say they took power through a coup.

In this scenario, how would relations with Germany be? Hitler tried by all means to have good relations with the French but the French democrats simply rejected him.

If the fascists take power, will France remain neutral in eastern affairs? Could there be a Franco-German alliance?
I'm sorry but Hitler did not try to have good relations with any of his neighbours, he simply thought they could be talked into seeing things his way and he detested the French for the humiliation of 1918. Add in the desire to reclaim Alsace -Lorraine and there was no chance of good relations with Paris whoever was in charge.
 
Agreed...the French right was a very mixed bunch.
If one assumes that they can get organised and create a common front like the left did then civil war is practically inevitable.
If they win win they would certainly not be giving territorial concessions to anyone .Any alliances would be redrawn on the basis that they would directly benefit French interests . All the recent immigrants and those having received French nationality recently will be sent back or sent to Algeria etc to work.
Hitler's occupation of the Rhineland will be firmly stopped which put's the Nazi's on much thinner ice. Same goes for the later Anschluss as their "natural " ally will probably be Italy and between them and Franco,a Latin Axis becomes possible with support for retaking Gibraltar.Relations with Britain and the US could be curtailed .
Funnyly enough I was just this morning looking at the drop in french demographics toward the 1800 's again and that's another little goldmine for French ascendency if it does not happen....
 
No! The Germans loathed the French XD : At Versailles the French were the most sanguine, then they occupied the Ruhr and the Rhineland ,squeezing an awful lot out in the process.
 
Probably a superficial take on my part but being's as I'm using something similar (details are still sketchy to say the least :) ) in a background I'm working on my 'assumption' is that if France were to take a hard right turn it would actually probably see Italian Fascism as an ally against Germany and possibly England in the 'next' war. If (as I have happening) Germany becomes less of a threat then it's likely they would look to 'contain' the USSR but more towards England as possible 'check' on their play for more power on the Continent. Or is this all wrong?

Randy
 
I think the same Randy.French arrogance ,due to recent history, could not allow Germany to be the dominant partner even in a fascist front so they would do everything to keep German revanchism at bay. the time frame we are working to is perfect to allow that to happen and deny the nazis the economic keys for rearmement.Once the latin Front is stable then Poland would be invited because they have a right wing tendency already, want to keep the Germans down too and would be a bullwork towards Russia.
I honestly think that this all makes for a really interesting timeline but perhaps has already been done ?
 
Could there be a Franco-German alliance?
As others have pointed out, the French right was very anti-German. I guess if they both decide to invade Switzerland you could get something resembling the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, but that would just be directed against Switzerland. I don't see them agreeing to protect each other.
 
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