DWI: What if New England hadn't succeeded in the War of 1812?

[Sarthak]

As we all know, the War of 1812 was a humiliation for America, and after the White House was burnt to the ground by the British, the Hartford Convention declared independence for New England, which distracted the Americans enough for the British to capture the Great Lakes and the Michigan Peninsula. America was forced to sign a humiliating treaty giving independence to New England and ceding the Michigan Peninsula to British North America.

So what would have happened, if New England didn't go independent?

 

[An Thuong]

(OOC: By New England we're not including New York, Pennsylvania, Marlyand, and Delaware right?)
I think that the U.S. is still kind of doomed to be torn apart. I feel like New England would join the Mid-Atlantic states in seceding from the USA over the abolition of slavery.

 

[Sarthak]

(OOC: By New England we're not including New York, Pennsylvania, Marlyand, and Delaware right?)
I think that the U.S. is still kind of doomed to be torn apart. I feel like New England would join the Mid-Atlantic states in seceding from the USA over the abolition of slavery.

No, only the original NE states

 

[Thomas1195]

No, only the original NE states

The British gave them Eastern New York including New York City anyway.

 

[Sarthak]

The British gave them Eastern New York including New York City anyway.

Ah yes, forgot about that.

 

[Thomas1195]

Britain getting everything west of Ohio following the war was basically the death sentence for the abolitionist movement in the rump US. You know, when the Free States were blocked and the Southern States were free to move west, a Slavocrat-dominated Congress was inevitable.

 

[Sarthak]

Britain getting everything west of Ohio following the war was basically the death sentence for the abolitionist movement in the rump US. You know, when the Free States were blocked and the Southern States were free to move west, a Slavocrat-dominated Congress was inevitable.

Yes it was quite astonishing. As European and Civilized powers around the globe started to abolish slavery, relations between Them and the USA started to sour.

 

[StrikeEcho]

Yes it was quite astonishing. As European and Civilized powers around the globe started to abolish slavery, relations between Them and the USA started to sour.

Heck, the Oregon Incident was sparked by slaves escaping north into Canada. It didn't help the US's economy started to stagnant around the same time due to overreliance on slavery.

 

[Sarthak]

Heck, the Oregon Incident was sparked by slaves escaping north into Canada. It didn't help the US's economy started to stagnant around the same time due to overreliance on slavery.

Indeed, it also led to the Anglo-American border war which led to Oregon being annexed into British North America.

 

[AltoRegnant]

Prepare for a Brazil screw. the US was the only power that could stop Brazi from dominating the new world, especially after the empire got Portugal's colonies. Emperor Afonso I said in the 1910s-back when he was just the Prince- that in any reasonable world, the USA would rule the planet.

Fundamentally this is the issue with republics. Without a strong monarch able to carry out a grand vision or at least break up power blocs, secession and instability are inevitable. Had George Washington raised himself a Throne and appointed a capable successor (probably Hamilton), it would work

 

[StrikeEcho]

Prepare for a Brazil screw. the US was the only power that could stop Brazi from dominating the new world, especially after the empire got Portugal's colonies. Emperor Afonso I said in the 1910s-back when he was just the Prince- that in any reasonable world, the USA would rule the planet.

Fundamentally this is the issue with republics. Without a strong monarch able to carry out a grand vision or at least break up power blocs, secession and instability are inevitable. Had George Washington raised himself a Throne and appointed a capable successor (probably Hamilton), it would work

I wouldn't go that far, most Monarchies nowadays are more or less republics with ceremonial monarchs.
Plus the Republic of New England, the Federation of Malaya and the French Republic plus others, are all modern first-world countries.

 

[samcster94]

I think a different constitution could have been written back then. Possibly some kind of constitutional monarchy.

 

[AltoRegnant]

I wouldn't go that far, most Monarchies nowadays are more or less republics with ceremonial monarchs.
Plus the Republic of New England, the Federation of Malaya and the French Republic plus others, are all modern first-world countries.

I'll give you New England and Malaya, but France has basically been dominated by generalissimos since the 20s. it's economy and empire are doing well, but its hardly republican

 

[pattontank12]

Britain getting everything west of Ohio following the war was basically the death sentence for the abolitionist movement in the rump US. You know, when the Free States were blocked and the Southern States were free to move west, a Slavocrat-dominated Congress was inevitable.

Let's not forget the United States gobbling up much of latin America during the 19th century creating the golden circle. I mean Mexico and Columbia don't even exist as countries anymore to name a few.

Indeed, it also led to the Anglo-American border war which led to Oregon being annexed into British North America.

Of course the United States went on to beat the British and New England with a vengeance during the Great War of the last decade of the 19th century. Alongside their allies at the time of Russia, Italy and Germany... which spelt the beginning of the end for the British Empire.

Yes it was quite astonishing. As European and Civilized powers around the globe started to abolish slavery, relations between Them and the USA started to sour.

I wouldn't put it as simply as that the British victory in the War of 1812 led to the at the time rump United States to seek alliances with other European powers to counteract Britain and New England.

 

[Thomas1195]

course the United States went on to beat the British and New England with a vengeance during the Great War of the last decade of the 19th century. Alongside their allies at the time of Russia, Italy and Germany... which spelt the beginning of the end for the British Empire

And then the USA got dismembered in the rematch in the 1920s - with Germany switching side following a republican revolution. Today, what was formerly known as the USA are simply a bunch of rump nations. New England and British North America dominates North America simply because they have greater population and economies than the other rump states. Meanwhile, the Latino USCA dominates Central America.

 

[AltoRegnant]

And then the USA got dismembered in the rematch in the 1920s - with Germany switching side following a republican revolution. Today, what was formerly known as the USA are simply a bunch of rump nations. New England and British North America dominates North America simply because they have greater population and economies than the other rump states. Meanwhile, the Latino USCA dominates Central America.

of course, the german republic didn't last that long either, with germany and america being each other's biggest markets and Germany losing to russia because her best were fighting in america when russia joined the war. the eastern part of Prussia was carved off and slaviziced to a point where it was a plurality and not german enough to join again, and Bavaria was torn out to feed Austria. Germany soon became the communist hellscape we call the Volksreich under Adolf Hitler due to the instability[/QUOTE]

 

[Thomas1195]

of course, the german republic didn't last that long either, with germany and america being each other's biggest markets and Germany losing to russia because her best were fighting in america when russia joined the war. the eastern part of Prussia was carved off and slaviziced to a point where it was a plurality and not german enough to join again, and Bavaria was torn out to feed Austria. Germany soon became the communist hellscape we call the Volksreich under Adolf Hitler due to the instability

[/QUOTE]
The German exiles really did a lot in building up New England's scientific and technological dominance these days.

which

Btw, the end of the British Empire is an exaggeration. It lost India, African colonies and Malaya. But it kept the more important ones: Canada and Australasia.

 

[Starforce]

The US might rule the planet, but they would have serious competitors such as National Socialist Russia (if they succeeded in this world), and the Volksreich.

 

[AltoRegnant]

The US might rule the planet, but they would have serious competitors such as National Socialist Russia (if they succeeded in this world), and the Volksreich.

i think the Volksreich would be butterflied since it arose due to economic hardship from war with america and the lost war

 

[Alpha_North]

Let's not forget the United States gobbling up much of latin America during the 19th century creating the golden circle. I mean Mexico and Columbia don't even exist as countries anymore to name a few.

As well as that Frederick Coombs, "Emperor" of Mexico, wouldn't have then launched his personal war against the United States if they hadn't invaded Mexico. I heard that the remnants of the "Imperial Army" were still fighting until the end of the Great War. San Francisco really breeds eccentrics in power. I even heard some other Brit named Joshua A. Norton, after he spent some time in San Francisco, the rumors that he was the bastard son of Napoléon Charles (son of Louis I of Holland) led to him launching a military expedition in FRENCH GUIANA gaining Brazilian assistance because he was somehow friends with the Emperor, declaring himself Emperor Joshua I of the French Empire, with the Norton-Bonaparte dynasty ruling French Guiana as a Brazilian puppet until FINALLY the French and British were able to pressure the Brazilians to depose "Emperor" Napoleon III of the French Empire and return French Guiana. Crazy stuff man.