American Economic Integration (US as Rome)

This will hopefully be a fairly free wheeling discussion, inspired by my thoughts in a thread in the FH subforum that was pursuing the tried and true formula of the US as the new Rome. My position boiled down to this: if America is the new Rome, it needs its own Socii. There's no reason for them to be military allies because the US doesn't need military allies - it has the most powerful military and two ocean-sized moats. However, economic allies are always useful - the bigger your trade network is, the richer you are. This is an alternative to the usual 'the US should annex the Western Hemisphere' (thats an argument for another time). I don't argue that this is necessarily likely, but I do argue that, if you want to make America the new Rome, this is probably the most thorough and effective way to do so.

So, suppose at some point during the 20th century - almost certainly sometime in the first half of the century - the political consensus in the US is that the US should establish a robust free trade network across the Americas, from Tierra Del Fuego to Cape Morris Jessup. Not a multilateral organization like the failed FTAA of our history (which had a great logo, by the way), but a series of bilateral trade agreements that eliminate as many trade barriers as humanly possible - everyone else in the network is free to establish similar free trade agreements with each other, but the US isn't going to mind being the middle man between those that don't. Rome didn't do multilateral agreements, so this new Rome won't either. Bilataralism would likely also help sustain the political popularity of this movement, at least within the US, where a lot of large multilateral deals often falter due to concerns about ceding too much control (even NAFTA had to get renegotiated, and that only involved three nations).

To this end, it would pursue a total economic union with all other countries in the Americas, climbing up the ladder of economic integration as far as possible:
Ultimately, the key 'wins' that the US would want in this scenario is a series of treaties that form common markets and customs unions with the other nations of the Americas.

I think we can agree that, on balance, while there would be specific sectors in each countries' economies that would have trouble with this, in general, free trade is a good thing, and if such a policy were actually pursued in the long-term, the western hemisphere would be quite a bit richer. If the policy were successful, it would also integrate Latin American economies with the US economy more deeply than they currently are, which could result in more political cohesion in the region (note I say cohesion, not necessarily stability). Finally, as the US would be the larger partner by far in each of the bilateral agreements, it would be in the position to set the common external tariffs, pretty much at will, and any sanctions would be that much more potent.

Discuss amongst yourselves.
 
Like an Americas Union? Once Americans learn Spanish, and it's part of Latin America, it will definitely feel like the New Rome.
 
Like an Americas Union? Once Americans learn Spanish, and it's part of Latin America, it will definitely feel like the New Rome.

Heh

My main interest is just focusing on the most glaring difference between Rome and America’s foreign policies, vis a vis their neighboring allies. On a superficial level, NATO or the major Pacific allies might seem like the Socii, except that those alliances don’t really exist to defend the US’s territory (the only alliance that ever has is the US-Canadian alliance, using Canada as a shield against Soviet missile attacks).

Consider a Republican Roman army, where half the manpower would be Italian allies. Then consider a joint-NATO operation (or any joint allied campaign), where the vast majority of the forces deployed are American, with the allies there mainly to add legitimacy, improve logistics, or fulfill niche roles.

So, whatever the American equivalent to the Socii are, it isn’t their military allies, Canada possibly excepted - but then, they are the economy most integrated into the American economy already, strengthening my argument that America’s equivalent would be economic partners.
 
I guess that would make an interesting ASB timeline as otherwise it would be absurd.

More specifically about South America, why would they look to the US as a Rome instead of their former metropolises? Or better yet, local cultural and financial elite would see themselves as Rome, instead of a strange, far away, Germanic speaking country.

Aside the fact of South America being more populated than the US and Canada combined, the region indeed looked outside for reference, but those were in Portugal, Spain, and when they were not powerful enough, Britain was the financial overlord. South America was the most important part of the British informal empire, getting more British investments than any British Dominion. France and in a lesser degree Germany, became the main references regarding culture, society in general, and when immigrants were needed, millions of Italians, Germans and more Spaniards and Portuguese flooded the continent.

I really don't see how the US would make it's way in such environment, specially in an overwhelming way described by the OP. And more strange is this suggestion, that proud, snob Roman Catholic, Romance languages speakers would somehow become "more cultured", "Rome", by adopting foreign habits coming from a "Germanic", overlord.

It's very confusing to me.
 
I guess that would make an interesting ASB timeline as otherwise it would be absurd.

More specifically about South America, why would they look to the US as a Rome instead of their former metropolises? Or better yet, local cultural and financial elite would see themselves as Rome, instead of a strange, far away, Germanic speaking country.

Aside the fact of South America being more populated than the US and Canada combined, the region indeed looked outside for reference, but those were in Portugal, Spain, and when they were not powerful enough, Britain was the financial overlord. South America was the most important part of the British informal empire, getting more British investments than any British Dominion. France and in a lesser degree Germany, became the main references regarding culture, society in general, and when immigrants were needed, millions of Italians, Germans and more Spaniards and Portuguese flooded the continent.

I really don't see how the US would make it's way in such environment, specially in an overwhelming way described by the OP. And more strange is this suggestion, that proud, snob Roman Catholic, Romance languages speakers would somehow become "more cultured", "Rome", by adopting foreign habits coming from a "Germanic", overlord.

It's very confusing to me.

Allow me to address the last point first: I'm not drawing a comparison between Rome and America on a cultural basis, where America must civilize the barbaric Latin Americans. I'm drawing a purely imperial comparison, and operating from the simple observation that Rome grew through its military alliances, while America doesn't really need military alliances. If I wanted to draw a cultural comparison, I would be focused on the EU as the Greece to America's Rome, a militarily dependent but economically and culturally sophisticated (and older) society to the east, which considers the upstart western power across the sea to be uncouth and is, in turn, considered decadent and soft by the upstart. To that end, if Latin America is anything, its Magna Graecia. That said, I'm not trying to start a cultural discussion, and this isn't as much about the leaders of any given country saying "We're the new Rome!" as much as it is addressing the typical comparisons drawn between Rome and the US.

Lets address the first point: why would they look to the US rather than their metropoles - lets just cut to the chase and say Spain or Portugal. Since this is a primarily economic discussion, we can answer that with economics, can't we? I'll pull up the five largest economies in Latin America and see who their top trading partners are (please forgive Mexico's numbers being from 2019 rather than 2020).

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We can see that the US is vastly more important to these countries economies than Spain and Portugal. Closer economic ties with the US correspondingly makes much more sense than closer economic tries with Spain or Portugal. Further, if this initiative were to get off the ground, as a customs union, it can snowball quite a bit - even for those countries where the US is not as overhwlemingly one of their main trading partners, their trade relationships with other countries in the Americas that could possibly join in such an agreement with the US makes joining more appealing - if Mexico joins (the most obvious), then Colombia isn't just exporting 25% to the US-lead trade bloc, they're exporting 31%. It is a snowball effect.

I'd also argue against the idea of the US being some strange country relative to the rest of the Americas.

Now, to the point that S. America is more populated than the US and Canada together (I notice that you exclude Mexico, despite their extreme economic interdependence with the US), that is certainly true (for the moment) but I don't see what the relevance there is. S. America did look to the UK for investment when the UK was the center of world finance, which only makes sense - so did the US.
 
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