AH Cuisine and Culinary Practices

[Zyobot]

Compared to war, culture, and geopolitics, food and food preparation tend to be widely overlooked in AH circles.

But as in all things, the butterflies let loose by different PODs — such as farmland being either developed or destroyed, sudden economic booms or busts, and different trade routes that pass along new items and ingredients along being opened or closed — would no doubt affect the supply chains and agricultural wherewithal of peoples and cultures the world over, too. Eventually, this would trickle down into different tastes, recipes, and ingredients that might catch OTL observers by surprise.

For instance, one post-1900 example I can think of is Cambodia's Kampot Pepper, which nearly went extinct under the Khmer Rouge alongside a host of other recipes and traditional culinary wisdom, no thanks to Pol Pot's purges wiping out lots of chefs, farmers, and knowledgeable elders, while his "Super Great Leap Forward" left farmland either rotting away or ruined by idiotic farming practices enforced at gunpoint. Only after Pol Pot was deposed did farmers who had fled return to restore the vines that grew Kampot Peppers. Fortunately, they're making a gradual comeback now, though progress is slow-going.

Naturally, it's easy to imagine ATL where Pol Pot never seizes power enabling Cambodia to not only develop much more nicely, but also ensuring that Kampot Peppers (and lots of other recipes and culinary wisdom wiped out IOTL, for that matter) remaining widespread and in no immediate danger of going extinct. Certainly, I doubt Vietnamese "counterfeit" peppers would have nearly as much success as IOTL, which is already a preeminent pepper producer in the region, as is. Probably true of Communist regimes in general, too, courtesy of the much more frugal and austere tastes of Poland, East Germany, and of course, Soviet Russia itself.

Of course, those are post-1900 PODs, and most examples of cuisine diverging wildly seem to be pre-1900, if the examples listed in the defunct Alternate Food and Drinks Thread make a good sample size. That said, there's still more than enough post-1900 material here, so feel free to share if you've something.

At any rate, lots of ways you can tinker with ATL cuisine and culinary practices, since tastes, recipes, and the availability of certain items and ingredients would vary wildly, depending on the POD and its runoff consequences for agriculture, hunting, and supply chains — all of which determine which foods make it and which ones don't.

Thank you in advance,
Zyobot

 

[Tessitore]

My TL " A Dog Went Left" will probably go on to involve a great deal of culinary divergence, although at the moment that side of things is just sort of implied. Very little in the way of cereals, a lot of vegetables and seasonings that are native to northern Europe but for some reason weren't used much or even cultivated in OTL, a very heavy use of nuts, especially hazelnuts, heavy use of cultured milk products due to an abundance of milk producing livestock and an absence of the genes for lactase persistence, "tea" , wine and cider instead of beer, etc.

Weirdly there'll probably also be a few examples of culinary convergent evolution. For example, they have a sort-of potato analog in the form of arrowhead tubers, they have something like yogurt and/or sour cream, and they have chives and various other suitable herbs, so something resembling potato salad is likely inevitable.

 

[ennobee]

From the top of my head: could the American Exchange not only bring potatoes, corn (maize) and turkeys to Europe but also get the capybara cultivated and eaten in Europe as an alternative to the common pig?

 

[PrinceofApathy]

My timeline-mentioned down below-has a pretty interesting cuisine if I do say so myself. It's mostly Afro-Caribbean, but with Amerindian, Germanic, Balkan, Mediterranean, and Levantine elements. All of it is bound by the strict interpretation of Orthodox Jewish dietary laws, as through the customs of Mediterranean Jewry.

 

[PrinceofApathy]

From the top of my head: could the American Exchange not only bring potatoes, corn (maize) and turkeys to Europe but also get the capybara cultivated and eaten in Europe as an alternative to the common pig?

If the people there managed to domesticate them, I don't see why not. The only potential obstacle is that Europe might be a bit too dry for creature that need baths all the time.

 

[Aghasverov]

Compared to war, culture, and geopolitics, food and food preparation tend to be widely overlooked in AH circles.

But as in all things, the butterflies let loose by different PODs — such as farmland being either developed or destroyed, sudden economic booms or busts, and different trade routes that pass along new items and ingredients along being opened or closed — would no doubt affect the supply chains and agricultural wherewithal of peoples and cultures the world over, too. Eventually, this would trickle down into different tastes, recipes, and ingredients that might catch OTL observers by surprise.

For instance, one post-1900 example I can think of is Cambodia's Kampot Pepper, which nearly went extinct under the Khmer Rouge alongside a host of other recipes and traditional culinary wisdom, no thanks to Pol Pot's purges wiping out lots of chefs, farmers, and knowledgeable elders, while his "Super Great Leap Forward" left farmland either rotting away or ruined by idiotic farming practices enforced at gunpoint. Only after Pol Pot was deposed did farmers who had fled return to restore the vines that grew Kampot Peppers. Fortunately, they're making a gradual comeback now, though progress is slow-going.

Naturally, it's easy to imagine ATL where Pol Pot never seizes power enabling Cambodia to not only develop much more nicely, but also ensuring that Kampot Peppers (and lots of other recipes and culinary wisdom wiped out IOTL, for that matter) remaining widespread and in no immediate danger of going extinct. Certainly, I doubt Vietnamese "counterfeit" peppers would have nearly as much success as IOTL, which is already a preeminent pepper producer in the region, as is. Probably true of Communist regimes in general, too, courtesy of the much more frugal and austere tastes of Poland, East Germany, and of course, Soviet Russia itself.

Of course, those are post-1900 PODs, and most examples of cuisine diverging wildly seem to be pre-1900, if the examples listed in the defunct Alternate Food and Drinks Thread make a good sample size. That said, there's still more than enough post-1900 material here, so feel free to share if you've something.

At any rate, lots of ways you can tinker with ATL cuisine and culinary practices, since tastes, recipes, and the availability of certain items and ingredients would vary wildly, depending on the POD and its runoff consequences for agriculture, hunting, and supply chains — all of which determine which foods make it and which ones don't.

Thank you in advance,
Zyobot

I love the culinary and food-related threads, wish there were more of them. For one, I love food... the more "exotic" , the better If it wasn't for an inordinately high metabolism (and chronic shortage of funds ) , by all rights at age 54 I should be as big as a house....
For one thing, it's such a universal thing... for millions of people, the 1st "taste" (literally) that they get of a foreign or "exotic" culture, is through their stomachs... beyond that, a great deal of history has been shaped, or at least influenced, by food...
The Neolithic Revolution, the Spice Roads of Asia, the Columbian Exchange, various famines and other catastrophes resulting from over-reliance on certain (sometimes introduced) food sources, the enormous benefits of refrigeration and improved food-preservation techniques, the "Green Revolution" that contributed to the global population exploding post-WWII, the internationalization of some cuisines in recent centuries... I'm sure I'm missing a few...
Watched, with interest...

 

[Aisha Clan-Clan]

US annexing mexico and the phillippines at once in the same timeline would get you quite ah interesting mixes combining mexican/filipino cuisine. Latin american+southeast asian seems like a weird combo by OTL views.

 

[Aghasverov]

Latin american+southeast asian seems like a weird combo by OTL views.

Unless you're Peruvian

 

[ArchimedesCircle]

Silphium was an herb that was picked to extinction by the Romans. If there was less demand or they discovered a sustainable harvesting method it could have become a key part of Mediterranean cuisine.

 

[Jürgen]

European high cuisine was dominated by French cuisine from the 17th century, resulting in the other high cuisine being sidelined. The French high cuisine was fundamentally autarkic in nature, bringing different French dishes and foodstuff together created a koine cuisine from this, and giving them prestige,as example before the 30YW the German Riesling was high prestige wine of Northern Europe, but French policies spread French dishes, alcohols and foodstuff as the prestige food and drinks.

If Britain had ended up a absolute monarchy under Charles I, it’s likely something similar on smaller scale would have happened there, while Britain would have been unlikely to have able to dominate to the same degree as France, we could very well have seen high cuisine haggis as example.

A stronger or more self assured Scandinavian kingdom/kingdoms could have done something similar.

The HRE/Austria was maybe the only country really able to have had the same dominance as French, and we could have seen a high cuisine mixing central, east and south European cuisines.

 

[Jürgen]

Another aspect we should focus is the effect of selective breeding. As example if rapeseed had been cultivated into an edible breed (canola) earlier, we would have seen a radical different Northern European cuisine with the access to a cheap edible oil.

Alternative selective breeding of cultivars such as dandelion or chicory could have resulted in real competitors to coffee and tea, instead of in case of chicory just being a marginal competitor.

The first experimentation with extracting sugar from beet used the sweeter red beet, the problem, with this was that it resulted in a the coloring became burned. If the pale fodder beet had been selected instead, we could have seen attempt at domestic Northern European sugar production 150 year earlier, while likely not able to compete in price with sugar cane it would have fit well with the existing mercantile economic model, and likely many absolute monarchies would likely have set up their own domestic sugar production.

 

[Riain]

I'd like to see what sort of wine a surviving Byzantium and Crusader states could produce.

IIUC modern Turkey is a major producer of table and drying grapes and Israel makes some high quality wines. However I believe that Israel uses French varietals, it would be interesting to see the continuation of old Byzantine varietals and how they'd impact the global wine scene after the Age of Exploration.

Byzantine spirits might also be interesting, perhaps OTL regional spirits might have a much wider appeal due to the importance of Byzantium.

 

[Aghasverov]

European high cuisine was dominated by French cuisine from the 17th century, resulting in the other high cuisine being sidelined. The French high cuisine was fundamentally autarkic in nature, bringing different French dishes and foodstuff together created a koine cuisine from this, and giving them prestige,as example before the 30YW the German Riesling was high prestige wine of Northern Europe, but French policies spread French dishes, alcohols and foodstuff as the prestige food and drinks.

If Britain had ended up a absolute monarchy under Charles I, it’s likely something similar on smaller scale would have happened there, while Britain would have been unlikely to have able to dominate to the same degree as France, we could very well have seen high cuisine haggis as example.

A stronger or more self assured Scandinavian kingdom/kingdoms could have done something similar.

The HRE/Austria was maybe the only country really able to have had the same dominance as French, and we could have seen a high cuisine mixing central, east and south European cuisines.

It's hard to beat a good Riesling I'm sort of glad though, that German wines didn't become the "prestige wines" of the modern day, as now they tend to fall very nicely within my price range

The thought of British food or Scandinavian food becoming the haute cuisine of Europe just brings a smile to my face, for some reason

 

[Beatriz]

The creation of a Pan-SE Asian cuisine using common ingredients like fish sauce, lemongrass, chiles , andcommon cooking methods per Unilever such as braising, grilling and deep frying is possible

 

[fraa Jad]

Adoption of nixtamalization globally alongside the spread of maize would be a huge diversion from OTL with regards to nutrition.

Also what Jürgen said about sugar beets.

@ ArcimedesCircle : Silphium seems to have been similar in taste and usage to asaphoetida / hing.

 

[Jürgen]

It's hard to beat a good Riesling I'm sort of glad though, that German wines didn't become the "prestige wines" of the modern day, as now they tend to fall very nicely within my price range

The thought of British food or Scandinavian food becoming the haute cuisine of Europe just brings a smile to my face, for some reason

It would end up pretty different in case of Scandinavia, while I think the British version would have a lot in common with French high cuisine,

In case of Scandinavia I can make a few guesses of what would happen. In case of drinks you would see fruit (apple, pears and cherry mainly) wines, ciders, plum brandy, and spiced meads would replace foreign export. In case of beer Scandinavia would be pretty much unrecognizable, modern Scandinavian beers developed from Bavarian and Bohemian beer, here we would see it develop from native Scandinavian beers, the result will likely be a very .dark beer. Spirits would be pretty much the same.

In case of food, we can look at the different raw material and the traditional ways of making food in Scandinavia. While boiling was common, it will likely be less dominant but ragouts and soups would still be major part of the high cuisine. smoked food would be very common in dishes. I expect mushrooms and fish to be a very major part.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Due to the Anglo heritage, the US used to be a cider drinking nation in the 18th and into the 19th century, but the folk story of Johnny Appleseed is the only lingering remnant. Tastes shifted and Prohibition destroyed most remaining cider production.

Along those lines and somewhat more obscure is the story of American fruit brandies. Formerly, most whiskey distillers in the US also produced brandies from peaches and apples. This practice seems to have been declining by the end of the 19th century since whiskeys had become more clearly popular (and farmers loved having local distillers as a ready market), but they were still being produced up until Prohibition and today at least there are distilleries using the same recipes and owned by the same people. The technique used to produce the apple brandy at least seems different than for calvados.

So if we avert Prohibition and alter the changing tastes of the late 19th century, we could imagine that American ciders and apple brandies might become an essential part of American culture and among those products associated with the US at least as much as something like Jack Daniels is.

On those same lines, I've long thought that yaupon tea might also become a product deeply associated with the US. It's a native species that grows all along the coast of the South from the Virginia Tidewater to Texas after the famous Boston Tea Party it was very popular North and South as opposed to foreign tea. But eventually the US shifted to drinking coffee instead.

With better marketing it could become to the US what yerba mate is to Brazil and Argentina. Southern plantation owners would like it as a cash crop, and one could imagine it spread by Confederate exiles in Cuba, Mexico, and Brazil. It would probably need a total disassociation from the Native American "black drink", which yaupon was only one ingredient and not the one which caused the vomiting associated with the ritual as was falsely believed. However, I think as Native American iconography in advertising grows by the end of the 19th century, you'd certainly see brands taking that direction and calling it the "ancient drink of the Cherokees" or something like that.

Alternative selective breeding of cultivars such as dandelion or chicory could have resulted in real competitors to coffee and tea, instead of in case of chicory just being a marginal competitor.

They couldn't be true competitors because they contain no caffeine.

 

[Zireael]

Silphium was an herb that was picked to extinction by the Romans. If there was less demand or they discovered a sustainable harvesting method it could have become a key part of Mediterranean cuisine.

Why was it in such high demand?

 

[Riain]

Due to the Anglo heritage, the US used to be a cider drinking nation in the 18th and into the 19th century, but the folk story of Johnny Appleseed is the only lingering remnant. Tastes shifted and Prohibition destroyed most remaining cider production.

Along those lines and somewhat more obscure is the story of American fruit brandies. Formerly, most whiskey distillers in the US also produced brandies from peaches and apples. This practice seems to have been declining by the end of the 19th century since whiskeys had become more clearly popular (and farmers loved having local distillers as a ready market), but they were still being produced up until Prohibition and today at least there are distilleries using the same recipes and owned by the same people. The technique used to produce the apple brandy at least seems different than for calvados.

So if we avert Prohibition and alter the changing tastes of the late 19th century, we could imagine that American ciders and apple brandies might become an essential part of American culture and among those products associated with the US at least as much as something like Jack Daniels is.

That would be awesome.

 

[dcharles]

Why was it in such high demand?

Birth control