Deleted member 57691
I remember reading somewhere that some barbers in Rome were very near to discovering the power of steam in 10 BC or so. I created this post to get you guys on this matter, and try to debate on how this would change our world.
Roman scholars understood the power of steam, just as they knew about pneumatics, the relationship between pressure and temperature of gases, and magnetism. They just couldn't make these things do anything worthwhile. Having discovered a phenomenon and finding a useful application for it are two very different things, and the distance between them is usually defined by the ambient technology level more than anything else.
Well, there was a form of steam engine invented in Roman Egypt, but it wasn't effective enough to do any useful work. I also dont think that steampower of the industrial scale could have been invented at that time, simply because the metallurgy was not nearly at the same level, meaning that there were no metals strong enough to deal with the forces created by such machines. Also, what incentive is there to invent steam engines in a time where slave labor is readily available?
Deleted member 57691
Ok, that is one part. But just thin. What if?
And by steam, i meant steam applications
, guess I shouldve elaborated a bit more.
And by steam, i meant steam applications
, guess I shouldve elaborated a bit more.Ok, that is one part. But just thin. What if?
And by steam, i meant steam applications
Toys actually.
Theres actually a thread going where someone pretends it would go anywhere. Read that for ideas. Theres a couple of others too, rather older.
I've always wanted to give this a fair shot and actually flesh out a crude scenario, rather than just whinge about how useless Hero of Alexandria was on his own.
Now we can make a steam engine.
- Trajan's conquest of Mesopotamia lasts longer than it historically did.
- Greater exposure to the fashions of the Orient leads to a greater interest in ornately-patterned clothing amongst the fashionistas of Ancient Rome
- One technique for easily (re)producing this oriental clothing is quickly discovered: large woodcut blocks can be pressed against plain cloth, applying paint to the fabric quickly, easily, and repeatedly with the same woodcut blocks. This makes a good copy of "Persian" clothing which people go ape for.
- [Skip several decades]
- The master of the mint at Arles visits Rome. Although he came to the city to, amongst other things, purchase fashionable 'Persian' clothing, he's also had some ideas stewing about in his head. Upon the invitation of a senator and friend of his, this mint-master watches firsthand "Persian" clothes made with woodcut blocks, covered in paint or ink, pressing down on cloth and leaving a pattern which could be reproduced over and over again. Inspiration strikes.
- Some years later, the Arlesian produces the first printing press. Soon, some senatorial scholars begin ordering mass reproductions of the classics with these presses.
- [Around the same time]
- An enterprising young man with little money convinces not just one local patron, but several, to back his latest enterprise. Knowing that it will take a good while to build up a decent customer base, the young man offers the patrons the following deal: Instead of giving him the usual loan, which he won't be able to pay back regularly, he offers the patrons a direct cut in whatever revenue he makes. The patrons, taken in by this charismatic young man, agree to the deal, and within a few years these patrons who jointly-own stock in the young man's enterprise are raking in money.
- During the Severan dynasty (or some decent span of time after the above events), a well-to-do group of senators with scholarly aspirations begin sharing data on their own works. Some, with a keeness to recreate the works of the ancient masters, these men attempt to recreate or prove the various works of Aristotle, Pliny the Elder, and others. This group is soon dubbed the "New Academia".
- The New Academics, keen to show the depths of their devotion to the classic philosophers, aim to recreate experiments and prove the sayings of the old Greek philosophers. To their shock, oftentimes the Greeks' knowledge was proven flawed. They begin experimenting anew, this time to figure out how things really are.
- Given their experiences with hands-on work, the New Academics continue to work empirically, preferring data collected by themselves rather than sayings made centuries earlier. In their pursuit of new measurements and studies, they create several new tools: notably, they create a standard of temperature measurements, so that heat can be put in more precise terms than "quite hot" or "rather chilly".
- Although they now treat Hellenistic knowledge with skepticism, they still comb through the older tomes, aiming to find out what does work and what doesn't. The Pneumatica of Hero is given a look-over. One of his machines, the aeolipile, is rebuilt at the New Academics' meeting grounds (???) and fired up. Although the general consensus is that it's not very useful, the results of the experiment are, as with all the New Academic's work, written up, printed en masse and distributed across the Empire to various gentleman-scholars and country-scientists interested in these works.
Now we can make a steam engine.
I do like the idea of a Roman steam engin I have one really big issue.
For the engins to work efficently (i.e. better than just hiring slaves) the boilers need to be able to hold more pressure than the base metal (brass or iron). This in practice means that the science of meturalgy will need to come into play some 1400 years early.
It will mean overturning the accepted world view amongst scholars.
I had played with the idea of a blacksmith (with no formal education i.e. someone that doesn't know that something is impossible) making steel in an accident. This could then lead to the study of metals much ealier than in OTL.
Well, making "steel" is something that can be done by accident easily. Making good quality steel on purpose is harder - knowing how much carbon is too much is a difficult process even as technology advances.
Also, early steam engines OTL used wrought iron.