A Question on the Levant and the Indies

[Saepe Fidelis]

It's commonly asserted that the circumnavigation of Africa made the eastern Mediterranean trade routes from the East to Europe uneconomical, at least by the 16th century or so, thus rendering states like Venice and the Ottoman Empire much less commercially powerful.

My question is this: was this because the new route to India, China and the Spice Islands was inherently better/cheaper/more economical, or was it because of the contemporary instability of the eastern Mediterranean due to the rise of the Ottoman Empire?

I ask because I'm considering a scenario where there's no Ottoman Empire and the old Venetian/Egyptian trade routes aren't disrupted like they were IOTL. I wonder whether this spice route would remain economical for longer had there been a more stable political climate in the Mediterranean at the time and no 'closing' due to war between Spain and the Ottomans.

 

[FDW]

I think it was due to some of both, though with more emphasis on the cost part, since the prices of spices got heavily inflated as it repeatedly changed hands over the course of the silk road.

 

[Consul Arrianus]

I think it is the latter. The route through the eastern mediterrran is faster than shipping around Africa, but you never know if there's a war starting between christian Europe and the Ottomans.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Venice was offered the chance to open warehouses in Lisbon by the King of Portugal, but declined because it would be an insult to the sultan of Egypt, and any attempt to cease trading through Egypt would have left the large Venetian communities in Egypt open to being slaughtered in reprisal at such an insult.

Doesn't answer the question but throws in another dimension

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[Saepe Fidelis]

Venice was offered the chance to open warehouses in Lisbon by the King of Portugal, but declined because it would be an insult to the sultan of Egypt, and any attempt to cease trading through Egypt would have left the large Venetian communities in Egypt open to being slaughtered in reprisal at such an insult.

Doesn't answer the question but throws in another dimension

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

So basically the Venetians weren't powerful enough to be equal partners with the Muslim rulers who controlled the land routes?

What if Venice or the Italian city states in general had a stronger bargaining position? Perhaps a longer-lasting or more stable Latin Empire/less incompetently-executed 4th Crusade?

 

[Elfwine]

So basically the Venetians weren't powerful enough to be equal partners with the Muslim rulers who controlled the land routes?

What if Venice or the Italian city states in general had a stronger bargaining position? Perhaps a longer-lasting or more stable Latin Empire/less incompetently-executed 4th Crusade?

Venice already got a very good deal out of that - a stronger Latin Empire is worse if anything for the the city-state controlling a quarter and half a quarter of the 1204 borders of Rhomania.

 

[zampano]

It's an intricated question that we have in here. If the Eastern Mediterranean route is still economically profitable for Europeans, the Portuguese wouldn't cross half a world to the Indies.
The great navigations and the troubles in the Eastern commerce are pretty much connected.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

The other problem is winds. Sailing between arabia and india is a ,once.a.year, thing, going one way with monsoon winds and the other with the non.monsoon winds. Plus sailing up the narrow red sea can be interesting.