A non-federal German Empire in the 1800s

[Grey Wolf]

The two most discussed types of Germany in the 19th century are basically federal empires - the German Empire that emerged after the Franco-Prussian War, or the abortive 1848 creation. In both, the local rulers retained local sovereign rule, passing on higher functions to an executive and Emperor for the whole.

But if you look at the North German Confederation, then there is a sort of model for a Prussian Empire, whereby it is largely subsuming defeated states - Hannover, Nassau etc. Albeit in this form, it also has some of the proto-federal empire in such things as the Imperial cities.

How could a non-federal German Empire have come about some time during the 19th century, whereby the individual sovereign entities are swallowed up as regions or provinces, and their rulers at best become members of a House of Lords equivalent, holding their own personal lands and titles, but exercising no political power beyond what they can in parliament?

 

[Nivek]

You need someone (Prussia, Austria, Saxony) become the hegemon and won so big they are able to subdue and emasculated all minor states in German borders, so successfully is able to centralize all in his Capitol.

Don't lie ourselves, Germans have federalism in the blood, since arminius

 

[Grey Wolf]

How about a Prussia that didn't suffer the Napoleonic reversals? They have the Third Partition Polish lands including Warsaw, but at that point not the "Prussian Saxony" lands. Was there a trajectory where Frederick the Great's successors could continue into the 19th century as a successful militaristic power?

 

[Nivek]

How about a Prussia that didn't suffer the Napoleonic reversals? They have the Third Partition Polish lands including Warsaw, but at that point not the "Prussian Saxony" lands. Was there a trajectory where Frederick the Great's successors could continue into the 19th century as a successful militaristic power?

That way we could see a 'north' or 'East' Germany under a very centralized Prussia, more if they subdue Saxony, the thurungian micro states and Hannover as otl... that is not counting they getting Rhineland as otl

 

[DUWANG]

Honestly I can't really see that. Since and even before, the German and Germanic tribes and states were highly autonomous and federal, even within the tribes, like the Saxons or Alemanni. Till 1871 it would have been somewhat like 2,400 to 3,900 years since Pre-Germanic, Proto-Germanic, West-Germanic tribes and German states had autonomy and or freedom in some way or another. Mostly outside somewhat Armenius and the Kingdom of Germany/early HRE having always their own thing. The German Empire was allready seen as very, very Prussian, even with it's really strong federalism. But a centralized Prussian German Empire is something the North German kings, grand dukes and dukes probably won't and the the South German kings and the grand duke definitely won't accept. The only two centralized German states were Nazi Germany and the GDR, this tells one how much we value our autonomy and federal states.

 

[Wendell]

What about a Napoleonic POD?

 

[Wendell]

What about a Napoleonic POD?

Building off of this, there was quite an array of German generals of various and shifting allegiances commanding troops pf the same. Perhaps one group or another is in a position to do something.