The Whale has Wings
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
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the nets are OTL
See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=174533&start=30
However the other (and according to the above more effective) solution is even lower tech
a chain of spotting stations manned by rear area troops taking bearings on the impact splashes
See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=174533&start=30
However the other (and according to the above more effective) solution is even lower tech
a chain of spotting stations manned by rear area troops taking bearings on the impact splashes
20th March
In Hawaii Admiral Bloch states in a letter that the depth of water at Pearl Harbor is 45 feet, and for that and other reasons, he does not recommend anti-torpedo baffles. CINCPAC agrees, until such time as a light efficient net is developed. No-one seems to have pointed out to the Admiral how shallow Taranto harbour is.
It has taken Rommel much longer than he anticipated to get all his force unloaded and ready for operations. Losing two of the supply ships to air attack didn't help (although at least one of the two ships was already unloaded). In fact is has taken so long the next convoy is already on its way to Algiers with the next part of his force. Fortunately for the Italian navy, the Mediterranean fleet is preoccupied with the operations planned in the Eastern Mediterranean in support of Greece, and so far the convoy has only been harassed by aircraft from Malta, sinking one transport ship.
The Vichy government is doing everything it can short of declaring war on Britain to show it is cooperating with Germany, whose veiled threats about what will happen if the DONT co-operate are becoming increasingly blunt. Fortunately for them, Hitler is preoccupied with the preparations for Barbarossa at the moment. Their current position is to offer the Axis all help possible in Algeria, including port facilities, fuel, and food supplies. There is growing opposition and resentment to this, which is being suppressed by the regime with an increasingly heavy hand.
In Egypt, General O'Connor is looking at how best to allocate his troops to deal with what he expects to be an attack on Tunisia once Rommels force is established in Algeria. His main problem is that no sooner do more forces arrive, they are tasked to something else, and as a result he has had little in the way of substantial reinforcements. Currently XIII Corps consists of three divisions; 2nd Armoured, 6th Australian and 4th Indian. He has 7th Armoured refitting in the delta, and a South African Brigade as his reserves. The Free French expect to have about a division in Tunisia once they have finished relocating from Ethiopia, plus what will effectively be a somewhat under-armed armoured brigade.
His main problem is equipment. While considerable supplies have been arriving, much of this has gone to Greece and Crete with the ANZAC forces. While the base workshops have repaired what was repairable after the campaign across the desert, much of the transport simply had to be written off for spares. Fortunately a considerable amount of Italian equipment is available; indeed the Free French are outfitted with Italian trucks and support vehicles. Because of the transport shortage and the poor infrastructure in Libya, he intends to position his forces in a number of locations where, as far as possible, they can be supplied at sea until he can build up enough strength to foray into Algeria (assuming, of course, that the politicians will let him). One brigade of 2nd Armoured will be forward in Tunisia in support of the Free French forces until their Armoured Brigade is ready to deploy. The 4th Indian Div will be at Tripoli. The 6th Australian plus a brigade of 7th Armoured will be at El Agheila and Benghazi. He is still not happy with the state of training of 2nd Armoured, who he feels are insufficiently prepared compared to 7th Armoured, so the remaining two brigades will be held around Tobruk where they will keep training (the advanced Brigade is the one which saw combat in the Cyrenaica campaign).
He would prefer to have his forces further forward ready to intervene faster in Tunisia when it proves necessary, but at the moment his logistics simply don't allow it. he takes comfort in the fact that Rommel has equally troublesome logistics problems to solve, and at least his transports aren't being sunk out from under him by the Royal Navy and RAF. The Free French are occupying forward positions on the Tunisia-Algeria border, and if attacked will fight a delaying action until he can reinforce them.
22nd March
The Italian convoy to Algiers, which had managed to avoid interception by the Royal Navy so far, runs into a force of cruisers and destroyers from Force H. The forces fleet carrier is unfortunately in dock, so instead a surface force of cruisers and destroyers has been sent. Air cover for the convoy is limited; there is now a Luftwaffe airfield operating near Algiers, but this so far only consists of a squadron of fighters and one of Stukas. The Royal Navy attacked the convoy just after dawn, and sank 4 merchant ships and 3 escorting destroyers for the loss of one destroyer and damage to two cruisers. The Luftwaffe dive bombers attacked as the force was retreating west, but only managed to land one hit on HMS Southampton. Fortunately the Stukas are not from Fliegerkorps X, and are more used to dealing with army support than with ships
23rd March
Luftwaffe Stuka dive-bombers, with a fighter escort, conduct a raid on Malta. A total of 13 German planes are shot down while the British lose two fighters. British authorities decide to withdraw all bombers and flying boats from Malta as a result of the raid. As air bases are now available in Tunisia, there is less need to have the longer-ranged aircraft so vulnerable to enemy attack.
The Vichy regimes in Syria and Lebanon, which has been in secret discussions in Cairo with the Free French and the British, come to an agreement. In a similar manner to Tunisia, a considerable number of people will resign; those who wish will be transported to a neutral or allied country of their choice. In return, the two countries will declare for the Free French. The decision has been helped along by subtle hints pointing out that the forces in the desert have little to do at the moment, and Syria and the Lebanon are really quite close; the British are keeping quiet about the fact that they are still short of equipment. However the agreement will not be made public for some days. The more cynical among the allies reckon this is to allow certain parties to get away with ill-gotten gains; they are quite correct in this assumption.
This will leave Vichy as only controlling French Morocco, Algeria and (oddly) Madagascar out of its former colonies, a serious political blow to them when it becomes public.
The Italian convoy that had scattered when intercepted by the Royal Navy straggles into Algiers. The Vichy regime, desperate to show its compliance with German 'requests', starts unloading operations immediately. This is just as well, as that night the RAF pays a visit in the form of a bombing raid by Wellingtons, which sinks one of the ships in the harbour and sets another on fire. With the convoy losses at sea and now this the supply convoy has lost over half the equipment sent.
In Hawaii Admiral Bloch states in a letter that the depth of water at Pearl Harbor is 45 feet, and for that and other reasons, he does not recommend anti-torpedo baffles. CINCPAC agrees, until such time as a light efficient net is developed. No-one seems to have pointed out to the Admiral how shallow Taranto harbour is.
It has taken Rommel much longer than he anticipated to get all his force unloaded and ready for operations. Losing two of the supply ships to air attack didn't help (although at least one of the two ships was already unloaded). In fact is has taken so long the next convoy is already on its way to Algiers with the next part of his force. Fortunately for the Italian navy, the Mediterranean fleet is preoccupied with the operations planned in the Eastern Mediterranean in support of Greece, and so far the convoy has only been harassed by aircraft from Malta, sinking one transport ship.
The Vichy government is doing everything it can short of declaring war on Britain to show it is cooperating with Germany, whose veiled threats about what will happen if the DONT co-operate are becoming increasingly blunt. Fortunately for them, Hitler is preoccupied with the preparations for Barbarossa at the moment. Their current position is to offer the Axis all help possible in Algeria, including port facilities, fuel, and food supplies. There is growing opposition and resentment to this, which is being suppressed by the regime with an increasingly heavy hand.
In Egypt, General O'Connor is looking at how best to allocate his troops to deal with what he expects to be an attack on Tunisia once Rommels force is established in Algeria. His main problem is that no sooner do more forces arrive, they are tasked to something else, and as a result he has had little in the way of substantial reinforcements. Currently XIII Corps consists of three divisions; 2nd Armoured, 6th Australian and 4th Indian. He has 7th Armoured refitting in the delta, and a South African Brigade as his reserves. The Free French expect to have about a division in Tunisia once they have finished relocating from Ethiopia, plus what will effectively be a somewhat under-armed armoured brigade.
His main problem is equipment. While considerable supplies have been arriving, much of this has gone to Greece and Crete with the ANZAC forces. While the base workshops have repaired what was repairable after the campaign across the desert, much of the transport simply had to be written off for spares. Fortunately a considerable amount of Italian equipment is available; indeed the Free French are outfitted with Italian trucks and support vehicles. Because of the transport shortage and the poor infrastructure in Libya, he intends to position his forces in a number of locations where, as far as possible, they can be supplied at sea until he can build up enough strength to foray into Algeria (assuming, of course, that the politicians will let him). One brigade of 2nd Armoured will be forward in Tunisia in support of the Free French forces until their Armoured Brigade is ready to deploy. The 4th Indian Div will be at Tripoli. The 6th Australian plus a brigade of 7th Armoured will be at El Agheila and Benghazi. He is still not happy with the state of training of 2nd Armoured, who he feels are insufficiently prepared compared to 7th Armoured, so the remaining two brigades will be held around Tobruk where they will keep training (the advanced Brigade is the one which saw combat in the Cyrenaica campaign).
He would prefer to have his forces further forward ready to intervene faster in Tunisia when it proves necessary, but at the moment his logistics simply don't allow it. he takes comfort in the fact that Rommel has equally troublesome logistics problems to solve, and at least his transports aren't being sunk out from under him by the Royal Navy and RAF. The Free French are occupying forward positions on the Tunisia-Algeria border, and if attacked will fight a delaying action until he can reinforce them.
22nd March
The Italian convoy to Algiers, which had managed to avoid interception by the Royal Navy so far, runs into a force of cruisers and destroyers from Force H. The forces fleet carrier is unfortunately in dock, so instead a surface force of cruisers and destroyers has been sent. Air cover for the convoy is limited; there is now a Luftwaffe airfield operating near Algiers, but this so far only consists of a squadron of fighters and one of Stukas. The Royal Navy attacked the convoy just after dawn, and sank 4 merchant ships and 3 escorting destroyers for the loss of one destroyer and damage to two cruisers. The Luftwaffe dive bombers attacked as the force was retreating west, but only managed to land one hit on HMS Southampton. Fortunately the Stukas are not from Fliegerkorps X, and are more used to dealing with army support than with ships
23rd March
Luftwaffe Stuka dive-bombers, with a fighter escort, conduct a raid on Malta. A total of 13 German planes are shot down while the British lose two fighters. British authorities decide to withdraw all bombers and flying boats from Malta as a result of the raid. As air bases are now available in Tunisia, there is less need to have the longer-ranged aircraft so vulnerable to enemy attack.
The Vichy regimes in Syria and Lebanon, which has been in secret discussions in Cairo with the Free French and the British, come to an agreement. In a similar manner to Tunisia, a considerable number of people will resign; those who wish will be transported to a neutral or allied country of their choice. In return, the two countries will declare for the Free French. The decision has been helped along by subtle hints pointing out that the forces in the desert have little to do at the moment, and Syria and the Lebanon are really quite close; the British are keeping quiet about the fact that they are still short of equipment. However the agreement will not be made public for some days. The more cynical among the allies reckon this is to allow certain parties to get away with ill-gotten gains; they are quite correct in this assumption.
This will leave Vichy as only controlling French Morocco, Algeria and (oddly) Madagascar out of its former colonies, a serious political blow to them when it becomes public.
The Italian convoy that had scattered when intercepted by the Royal Navy straggles into Algiers. The Vichy regime, desperate to show its compliance with German 'requests', starts unloading operations immediately. This is just as well, as that night the RAF pays a visit in the form of a bombing raid by Wellingtons, which sinks one of the ships in the harbour and sets another on fire. With the convoy losses at sea and now this the supply convoy has lost over half the equipment sent.
I think Rommel will have an interesting time attacking into Tunisia. It's naturally much better defensive terrain than the Libyan desert, and his air support from the Algerian airfields he controls will be quite far away.
When considering the deployments you mentioned above, it's also remembering that Tunisia is vastly more developed than Libya. It has much higher population density, a significantly better transportation density, and more and better ports. Consider the following map of railways in Tunisia:
If the British can maintain troops in Libya, they can maintain them just about as easily in Tunisa, as convoys (potentially using coastal shipping) can simply be run along the Libyan coast from Alexandria under air cover to Gabes and Sfax, and then moved by train. The fact that they don't need to use trucks for resupply makes a massive difference, as the Allies will be defending the railheads. Consider why the North African logistics mattered so much, because every vehicle that wanted to get anywhere had to do so under its own power, so you had to carry sufficient spare parts for them breaking on the way, including fuel and spare parts for the lorries carrying the fuel and spare parts, etc. Here, with the railways, that's all lifted, so you don't need that huge volume of organic transport strung back along the line of supply, as things like tanks can be carried by train near to where they need to be. On top of that, pre-war, the French invested in Tunisia's security, so there should be far more in the way of infrastructure to support troops, not to mention that you don't have to import food, etc.
Certainly there's no reason to have anything but garrison troops in Libya. The fact that the British can use coasters rather than deep sea ships for this means that the transport isn't incompatible with supplying Greece, as you need different vessels for that.
Greece looks like a massive disaster in the making. The fact that it's Dominion forces that are being thrown away for one of Churchill's grand gestures is very unlikely to go unnoticed, and I suspect that it will cause significant political issues for him. If there are substantial losses, as there almost certainly will be, I strongly suspect that the Australian forces will be called home.
I don't know if Menzies is currently in London, but if he is then I suspect there will be some sound and fury. With Blamey in charge, then at least proper preparations for withdrawal will have been made.
A note about Tunisia, the French don't have a governor there, as it was a technically Protectorate not a colony. They have a Resident-General, Admiral Jean-Pierre Estephe, who for all his faults (which landed him a life sentence), protected the Jewish population of Tunisia from the worst of the Vichy anti-semetic laws.
When considering the deployments you mentioned above, it's also remembering that Tunisia is vastly more developed than Libya. It has much higher population density, a significantly better transportation density, and more and better ports. Consider the following map of railways in Tunisia:
If the British can maintain troops in Libya, they can maintain them just about as easily in Tunisa, as convoys (potentially using coastal shipping) can simply be run along the Libyan coast from Alexandria under air cover to Gabes and Sfax, and then moved by train. The fact that they don't need to use trucks for resupply makes a massive difference, as the Allies will be defending the railheads. Consider why the North African logistics mattered so much, because every vehicle that wanted to get anywhere had to do so under its own power, so you had to carry sufficient spare parts for them breaking on the way, including fuel and spare parts for the lorries carrying the fuel and spare parts, etc. Here, with the railways, that's all lifted, so you don't need that huge volume of organic transport strung back along the line of supply, as things like tanks can be carried by train near to where they need to be. On top of that, pre-war, the French invested in Tunisia's security, so there should be far more in the way of infrastructure to support troops, not to mention that you don't have to import food, etc.
Certainly there's no reason to have anything but garrison troops in Libya. The fact that the British can use coasters rather than deep sea ships for this means that the transport isn't incompatible with supplying Greece, as you need different vessels for that.
Greece looks like a massive disaster in the making. The fact that it's Dominion forces that are being thrown away for one of Churchill's grand gestures is very unlikely to go unnoticed, and I suspect that it will cause significant political issues for him. If there are substantial losses, as there almost certainly will be, I strongly suspect that the Australian forces will be called home.
I don't know if Menzies is currently in London, but if he is then I suspect there will be some sound and fury. With Blamey in charge, then at least proper preparations for withdrawal will have been made.
A note about Tunisia, the French don't have a governor there, as it was a technically Protectorate not a colony. They have a Resident-General, Admiral Jean-Pierre Estephe, who for all his faults (which landed him a life sentence), protected the Jewish population of Tunisia from the worst of the Vichy anti-semetic laws.
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Garrison
Donor
Rommel really is under the hammer here. He's going to keep losing supplies at an atrocious rate and as has been pointed out Tunisia is far better ground for defence. The DAK is potentially going to be bled out before it gets near Tunis never mind Tripoli.
ETA: I'm wondering if we are going to see the Battle of the Kasserine Pass but with the relative roles reversed?
Yes, I'm not quite sure why the ANZACs have been put on the wire like this, unless it is either some sort of longer cunning plan, or to turn Churchill into a figure of hate east of Aden
Tunisia is being held by basically Free French formatiosn atm as a political act; it looks so much better than the way the germans and Italiasn are trampling all over Algeria. The logic hasnt been lost on Syria and Lebanon either...
13 Corps isnt that far away; there is the best part of two divisions quite close, and unlike OTL they are experienced troops and (by now) reasonably supplied. There is a huge advantage in being able to move forward into defensive positions and then not having to use the divisional transport to bring supplies from much further than the local railhead (supplied by coastal shipping). By comparison, Rommels logistical train is a nightmare, but politics will keep pushing supplies into it even with a high loss rate (around 40%). In addition Rommel has to create some forward airstrips of some sort if he is to have any chance of attacking. OTOH, people keep stealing O'Connors forces and supplies as fast as they arrive!
The ANZACS havent been sacrificed in Greece; there are a number of differences. First, the Corps is under Blamey, not Wilson. Second, they actually took notice of what the concern in OTL was, that Greece would all end in tears, and planned a bit better for it. There is more confidence this time that the RN can evacuate if needed (there isnt a lot of the Italian navy left, and the carriers can provide air cover for a limited time).The NZ Division doesnt in fact get further north than Crete, which means that at least they are sitting there with all their supplies. There have also been some promises made to Menzies regarding the Far East in exchange for the use of 1 Aus Corps, and this time they may actually keep them
13 Corps isnt that far away; there is the best part of two divisions quite close, and unlike OTL they are experienced troops and (by now) reasonably supplied. There is a huge advantage in being able to move forward into defensive positions and then not having to use the divisional transport to bring supplies from much further than the local railhead (supplied by coastal shipping). By comparison, Rommels logistical train is a nightmare, but politics will keep pushing supplies into it even with a high loss rate (around 40%). In addition Rommel has to create some forward airstrips of some sort if he is to have any chance of attacking. OTOH, people keep stealing O'Connors forces and supplies as fast as they arrive!
The ANZACS havent been sacrificed in Greece; there are a number of differences. First, the Corps is under Blamey, not Wilson. Second, they actually took notice of what the concern in OTL was, that Greece would all end in tears, and planned a bit better for it. There is more confidence this time that the RN can evacuate if needed (there isnt a lot of the Italian navy left, and the carriers can provide air cover for a limited time).The NZ Division doesnt in fact get further north than Crete, which means that at least they are sitting there with all their supplies. There have also been some promises made to Menzies regarding the Far East in exchange for the use of 1 Aus Corps, and this time they may actually keep them
Proper radio communications for the forces on Crete would be another major advantage for the Kiwi's in this time line. Historically their efforts at command and control were severely hampered by the almost complete absence of their divisional radio net. If it had been intact in the original battle there well may have been a more favorable outcome for the allies there.
If they can avoid being encircled and keep far enough ahead of the Germans I could see them carrying out a fighting retreat, pulling back to the ports in the south of the mainland or possibly even retreating to the Isthmus of Corinth and blowing the bridges over the Corinth Canal - it's wide and deep enough that it seems pretty defensible in the short term at least as you can see here. In this timeline you could see Admiral Cunningham speaking of the "navy must not let the army down" in regards to evacuating them from the mainland to Crete and then defending the island with the famous statement that "It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition." about the likely heavy casualties doing so. As an added bonus you may see more regular Greek forces and volunteers evacuated along with them allowing them to supply a lot of the manpower required for garrisoning the island and for raiding the mainland.
We might not even see a Battle of Crete in this timeline if the Germans decide that the naval part of it is too risky and that the garrison and defences are too strong for a purely airborne assault to beat. As you said simply more radios would of likely swung things narrowly the Allies way, throw in some extra Greek forces from the mainland or even just call up more of the locals for military service - they didn't conscript anywhere near the full amount they could of - and it could turn into a real fiasco for the Germans. I await with interest to see what Astrodragon does with Greece and Crete.
Astrodragon
Well, its taken about 10-11 hours but finally caught up with the TL after being away a month and looking good. A few quick comments:
a) After the review of a/c production and development someone, think it was Alratan? pointed out the vulnerability of Singapore to air attack - as shown by the FAA's own operations and pressed for more land based air units for anti-shipping operation. Would definitely support this and would actually say this would be better, in all ways other than moral in Australia possibly, than actually sending a major fleet east. Given how thinly stretched the RN is at this point it would be better to concentrate the CVs especially in the west at the moment and use a/c and a few more ground units to secure Malaya and the surrounding waters and give any Japanese invasion a very bloody nose. That was the plan after all and the airfields were built. Its just that only about a quarter of the estimated required a/c were sent and they were all obsolete. With the changes now that should be easily rectified, even with possibly larger than OTL aid to Russia. Plus if there are some experienced troops and some armour, even recycled Italian scrap that would be vastly superior to the total lack of OTL.
b) Agree that while I think it stupid the Japanese will attack the US when they head south and, while triply, insanely stupid they will attack Pearl. I think in the south Britain are likely, depending on events to be able to spare a small force, probably including a couple of fleet carriers to help bar the way. [Principally thinking that from what you're said the British naval position will improve significantly in May, at least in terms of capital ship units. Although need to if possibly avoid some of the late 41 losses.]
c) Suspect that even Hitler may decide to call time on Rommel's adventure in NA shortly. He has too many other things to deal with, including the Balkans, Vichy France, the tilting in the Atlantic battles that should be occurring and most of all the little camping trip the army is planning in its new eastern territories. Not to mention how much more merchant marine does Italy have left? That could well be the thing that causes a quick ending to the operation, especially since any supplies have to run the gauntlet of allied controlled Tunisia. I can see Axis losses being so bad that they dwindle away fairly rapidly, along with 'support' for the Axis in Algeria.
d) Greece is going to be a mess and we will suffer losses, especially land and naval. However as set up it isn't likely to be anything like as bad as OTL and we should keep Crete. Given the position the Germans might not even make a bid for it.
e) As someone said in a post a while back the Germans aren't likely to have the bleeding sore that was the NA campaign for very long. This probably won't boost their resources much, as it was only a pretty small fraction of their strength, although it will give them more logistical equipment in the east. However this will be a much, much bigger saving for Britain. Coupled with Syria coming into the allied camp without a fight and [possibly] no fight in Iraq that should mean, unless we're got committed at just the wrong time, adequate reserves that SE Asia can be reinforces with substantial units, many with battle experience.
f) I think it will be necessary for at least some aid to Russia, especially given Churchill's romantic nature and the propaganda approach Britain took OTL. Not to mention it would make sense at the time as the Soviets were the only ally actually fighting with the resources that might make a victory over the Nazis look practical. However given the more secure British position and greater resources this can be possible at the same time as reinforcing the Far East.
g) You mentioned that in response to Australian concerns raised about the state of the defences in Malaya someone was going to be sent east to review them. That wouldn't happen to be a 'skinny' army officer now hopefully fully recovered from a rather embarrassing wound would it.
h) Judging by the comments on the differences with the US over L-L the terms are a bit less hostile to Britain this time and also Britain still has some overseas funds not sold off cheaply? That's an improvement but would need watching.
i) How are things going on the tube research, both in Britain/empire and elsewhere compared to OTL? That will be one reason we will have a need, possibly not by the end of the war, for a large capable heavy bomber.
Probably a few other things I would like to ask about but looking forward to seeing how things develop. Glad to have finally caught up with all my subscribed threads after about 4 days hard reading. Now I suppose I should look at the new ones.
Anyway, great TL and looking forward to seeing more.
Steve
Well, its taken about 10-11 hours but finally caught up with the TL after being away a month and looking good. A few quick comments:
a) After the review of a/c production and development someone, think it was Alratan? pointed out the vulnerability of Singapore to air attack - as shown by the FAA's own operations and pressed for more land based air units for anti-shipping operation. Would definitely support this and would actually say this would be better, in all ways other than moral in Australia possibly, than actually sending a major fleet east. Given how thinly stretched the RN is at this point it would be better to concentrate the CVs especially in the west at the moment and use a/c and a few more ground units to secure Malaya and the surrounding waters and give any Japanese invasion a very bloody nose. That was the plan after all and the airfields were built. Its just that only about a quarter of the estimated required a/c were sent and they were all obsolete. With the changes now that should be easily rectified, even with possibly larger than OTL aid to Russia. Plus if there are some experienced troops and some armour, even recycled Italian scrap that would be vastly superior to the total lack of OTL.
b) Agree that while I think it stupid the Japanese will attack the US when they head south and, while triply, insanely stupid they will attack Pearl. I think in the south Britain are likely, depending on events to be able to spare a small force, probably including a couple of fleet carriers to help bar the way. [Principally thinking that from what you're said the British naval position will improve significantly in May, at least in terms of capital ship units.
Although need to if possibly avoid some of the late 41 losses.]c) Suspect that even Hitler may decide to call time on Rommel's adventure in NA shortly. He has too many other things to deal with, including the Balkans, Vichy France, the tilting in the Atlantic battles that should be occurring and most of all the little camping trip the army is planning in its new eastern territories.
Not to mention how much more merchant marine does Italy have left? That could well be the thing that causes a quick ending to the operation, especially since any supplies have to run the gauntlet of allied controlled Tunisia. I can see Axis losses being so bad that they dwindle away fairly rapidly, along with 'support' for the Axis in Algeria.d) Greece is going to be a mess and we will suffer losses, especially land and naval. However as set up it isn't likely to be anything like as bad as OTL and we should keep Crete. Given the position the Germans might not even make a bid for it.
e) As someone said in a post a while back the Germans aren't likely to have the bleeding sore that was the NA campaign for very long. This probably won't boost their resources much, as it was only a pretty small fraction of their strength, although it will give them more logistical equipment in the east. However this will be a much, much bigger saving for Britain. Coupled with Syria coming into the allied camp without a fight and [possibly] no fight in Iraq that should mean, unless we're got committed at just the wrong time, adequate reserves that SE Asia can be reinforces with substantial units, many with battle experience.
f) I think it will be necessary for at least some aid to Russia, especially given Churchill's romantic nature and the propaganda approach Britain took OTL. Not to mention it would make sense at the time as the Soviets were the only ally actually fighting with the resources that might make a victory over the Nazis look practical. However given the more secure British position and greater resources this can be possible at the same time as reinforcing the Far East.
g) You mentioned that in response to Australian concerns raised about the state of the defences in Malaya someone was going to be sent east to review them. That wouldn't happen to be a 'skinny' army officer now hopefully fully recovered from a rather embarrassing wound would it.
h) Judging by the comments on the differences with the US over L-L the terms are a bit less hostile to Britain this time and also Britain still has some overseas funds not sold off cheaply? That's an improvement but would need watching.
i) How are things going on the tube research, both in Britain/empire and elsewhere compared to OTL? That will be one reason we will have a need, possibly not by the end of the war, for a large capable heavy bomber.
Probably a few other things I would like to ask about but looking forward to seeing how things develop. Glad to have finally caught up with all my subscribed threads after about 4 days hard reading. Now I suppose I should look at the new ones.
Anyway, great TL and looking forward to seeing more.
Steve
Hyperion
Banned
The loss of those four ships, not counting the two later lost in port in Algeria will be a major blow, logistically speaking, for Rommel and any operations he has planned.
The loss of those three irreplaceable destroyers will be an even worse blow to Italy as well. In OTL, such losses, while not good, wouldn't have been too disruptive. Given the losses the Italians have suffered to the fleet and their merchant forces in this timeline, not counting German shipping losses, those three destroyers are three less ships that will protect the next convoy.
One thing I would do, once the Ark Royal or whatever carrier is working with Force H is ready to sail, send her out to hit every Axis airfield she can in Algeria with a swastika flying over it, and then pound every port and harbor they can find.
Having the newly arrived French battleship send a couple hundred tons of shells into the harbor at Bone could go a long way, both militarily and politically, towards weakening German control in the region.
25th March
In Vienna's ornate Belvedere Palace today, the Yugoslav premier, Dragisa Cvetkovich, put his signature to the pact which binds his country to Germany and the Axis. He had left behind in Belgrade a government and country deeply divided, with the Serbs passionately pro-British and the Croats equally pro-German.
After the signing, the premier said that his chief aim was peace and security for the Yugoslav people. Von Ribbentrop welcomed Yugoslavia as a "new partner", and promised that Germany would respect the country's territorial integrity and not make military demands. Nobody believes him, least of all the Yugoslav premier, and there are disturbances in Belgrade when it becomes known that Yugoslavia has signed the Tripartite Pact with Germany.
Increasing Axis activity in the form of air reconnaissance has been observed south and west of Greece and Crete and there are daily attempts to observe the harbour at Alexandria. It is suspected from this additional interest in the activities and whereabouts of the Royal Navy's Mediterranean Fleet that the enemy was planning some form of surface action. Secret intelligence intercepts confirmed that there would be attacks on British convoys but in planning the response it was most important to ensure that the Italians did not get any idea that this was known or suspected. While a number of the infiltrating reconnaissance planes have been shot down, they are starting to come over at high altitude, and this is making it very difficult for the Goshawks to intercept them (like most carrier planes, they are optimised for performance below 20,000 feet). A request is made to London for a squadron of Spitfires to make interception more likely.
Despite the damage done to the previous convoy, another one is ready to leave Naples. Rommel is pressing hard for more men and equipment, as he wants to attack Tunisia before the allies can rebuild their strength. Intelligence reports show that Imperial troops are arriving in Greece in numbers, and if they are in Greece they obviously can't be in North Africa. Indeed, Rommel wants the men and equipment brought forward as soon as they land, which raises the problem that the mechanised equipment requires desertification - modifying the equipment on arrival had been normal practice when the Italian workshops in Cyrenaica had been available, but apparently no-one in the supply services seemed to have realised they were now being used by the Allies. Rommel sends off a blistering telegram to Berlin, as a result of which the equipment will be modified in Naples so as to be ready to operate as soon as it lands.
At the moment, the contact between the Afrika Korps and the Allies is in a series of small units dug in around the western border of Tunisia. It is the aggressive patrolling of the German units that makes Rommel eager to attack immediately, as he sees the Free French as the weak link in the Allied forces
26th March
The heavy cruiser HMS York was hit by Italian explosive motor boats launched from the destroyers Crispi and Sella while she was lying in Suda Bay, Crete. Badly damaged, the ship was beached in shallow water, with both boiler rooms and an engine room out of action. Although the shipment of Hurricanes via Malta has helped, the RAF in the Eastern Mediterranean is still short of planes, and more are requested from Britain. There is currently a good supply of fighters available in the UK, as only limited operations are being undertaken against France, and it is hoped another delivery run can be made as soon as the carriers are ready again. This delivery run will become a steady process; a carrier loaded with aircraft will escort a Gibraltar convoy, then the fighter will be delivered to Malta where some will remain and other will fly on to North Africa. Priority will be given to planes other than the Hurricane, which is still being delivered via the cross-Africa route.
Given the build-up of Rommel's forces in Algeria, plans are being made for a fast convoy to be escorted through the Mediterranean direct to Alexandria carrying equipment and tanks. The base workshops have repaired most of the vehicles that were repairable, but shortages in certain classes remain.
27th March
At 2.30 this morning in Belgrade the Yugoslav regency council, headed by Prince Paul resigned; his nephew, King Peter, who is 17, took over and appointed as his prime minister General Dusan Simovich, the chief of the air staff. Simovich had organized the coup after two days of anti-Nazi demonstrations. Soon after a radio announcement of the successful coup, King Peter was cheered as he drove through Belgrade. Hitler does not take the news well.
In Washington, the secret Anglo-US staff talks (ABC1) which began in January ended today with broad agreement on plans for strategic co-operation in the event of US entry into the war against Germany or Japan or both.
In fourteen meetings since 29 January the two sides have discussed the American plan, put forward by Captain Turner of the US Navy and Colonel McNarney of the US Army. The result is plan ABC1. Its main argument is that Germany must be defeated first. the US would therefore give strategic priority to the Atlantic and to Europe, although the US navy would be used offensively in the Pacific as British staff officers have drawn attention to the vulnerability of Singapore.
Britain leases defence bases in Trinidad in the West Indies to the U.S. for 99-years, in exchange for another 30 Frigates to be built in the USA.
In a US research laboratory, a team of physicists reports the discovery of a new isotope of uranium which it calls plutonium-239.
In Vienna's ornate Belvedere Palace today, the Yugoslav premier, Dragisa Cvetkovich, put his signature to the pact which binds his country to Germany and the Axis. He had left behind in Belgrade a government and country deeply divided, with the Serbs passionately pro-British and the Croats equally pro-German.
After the signing, the premier said that his chief aim was peace and security for the Yugoslav people. Von Ribbentrop welcomed Yugoslavia as a "new partner", and promised that Germany would respect the country's territorial integrity and not make military demands. Nobody believes him, least of all the Yugoslav premier, and there are disturbances in Belgrade when it becomes known that Yugoslavia has signed the Tripartite Pact with Germany.
Increasing Axis activity in the form of air reconnaissance has been observed south and west of Greece and Crete and there are daily attempts to observe the harbour at Alexandria. It is suspected from this additional interest in the activities and whereabouts of the Royal Navy's Mediterranean Fleet that the enemy was planning some form of surface action. Secret intelligence intercepts confirmed that there would be attacks on British convoys but in planning the response it was most important to ensure that the Italians did not get any idea that this was known or suspected. While a number of the infiltrating reconnaissance planes have been shot down, they are starting to come over at high altitude, and this is making it very difficult for the Goshawks to intercept them (like most carrier planes, they are optimised for performance below 20,000 feet). A request is made to London for a squadron of Spitfires to make interception more likely.
Despite the damage done to the previous convoy, another one is ready to leave Naples. Rommel is pressing hard for more men and equipment, as he wants to attack Tunisia before the allies can rebuild their strength. Intelligence reports show that Imperial troops are arriving in Greece in numbers, and if they are in Greece they obviously can't be in North Africa. Indeed, Rommel wants the men and equipment brought forward as soon as they land, which raises the problem that the mechanised equipment requires desertification - modifying the equipment on arrival had been normal practice when the Italian workshops in Cyrenaica had been available, but apparently no-one in the supply services seemed to have realised they were now being used by the Allies. Rommel sends off a blistering telegram to Berlin, as a result of which the equipment will be modified in Naples so as to be ready to operate as soon as it lands.
At the moment, the contact between the Afrika Korps and the Allies is in a series of small units dug in around the western border of Tunisia. It is the aggressive patrolling of the German units that makes Rommel eager to attack immediately, as he sees the Free French as the weak link in the Allied forces
26th March
The heavy cruiser HMS York was hit by Italian explosive motor boats launched from the destroyers Crispi and Sella while she was lying in Suda Bay, Crete. Badly damaged, the ship was beached in shallow water, with both boiler rooms and an engine room out of action. Although the shipment of Hurricanes via Malta has helped, the RAF in the Eastern Mediterranean is still short of planes, and more are requested from Britain. There is currently a good supply of fighters available in the UK, as only limited operations are being undertaken against France, and it is hoped another delivery run can be made as soon as the carriers are ready again. This delivery run will become a steady process; a carrier loaded with aircraft will escort a Gibraltar convoy, then the fighter will be delivered to Malta where some will remain and other will fly on to North Africa. Priority will be given to planes other than the Hurricane, which is still being delivered via the cross-Africa route.
Given the build-up of Rommel's forces in Algeria, plans are being made for a fast convoy to be escorted through the Mediterranean direct to Alexandria carrying equipment and tanks. The base workshops have repaired most of the vehicles that were repairable, but shortages in certain classes remain.
27th March
At 2.30 this morning in Belgrade the Yugoslav regency council, headed by Prince Paul resigned; his nephew, King Peter, who is 17, took over and appointed as his prime minister General Dusan Simovich, the chief of the air staff. Simovich had organized the coup after two days of anti-Nazi demonstrations. Soon after a radio announcement of the successful coup, King Peter was cheered as he drove through Belgrade. Hitler does not take the news well.
In Washington, the secret Anglo-US staff talks (ABC1) which began in January ended today with broad agreement on plans for strategic co-operation in the event of US entry into the war against Germany or Japan or both.
In fourteen meetings since 29 January the two sides have discussed the American plan, put forward by Captain Turner of the US Navy and Colonel McNarney of the US Army. The result is plan ABC1. Its main argument is that Germany must be defeated first. the US would therefore give strategic priority to the Atlantic and to Europe, although the US navy would be used offensively in the Pacific as British staff officers have drawn attention to the vulnerability of Singapore.
Britain leases defence bases in Trinidad in the West Indies to the U.S. for 99-years, in exchange for another 30 Frigates to be built in the USA.
In a US research laboratory, a team of physicists reports the discovery of a new isotope of uranium which it calls plutonium-239.
Astrodragon
Most things as expected, or even with the Yugoslav coup and Hitler's reaction as OTL. However a couple of questions.
Would it go to Alexandria or to Tripoli? That's a little more vulnerable to Axis attack and might not have the same level of support but its a lot closer to the expected front. Seems a bit odd to send them all the way east to Alex then have to haul them west again?
Small quibble. They wouldn't call it Pu-239 if they thought it was an isotope of uranium. Relating to my question in my last post does Britain know anything of this.
I actually thought that Pu wasn't available until the Chicago pile was in service but according to Wiki it was 1st synthesised by the Americans at Berkeley in Dec 40 by bombarding uranium in a cyclotron. It wasn't chemically identified until Feb and published in Mar so presumably that's the info you're using?
One thing in the favour of the Italian fleet. Their not as short of escorts for convoys as OTL as they don't have large numbers of DDs and CLs tied up as escorts for capital ships.
Steve
Most things as expected, or even with the Yugoslav coup and Hitler's reaction as OTL. However a couple of questions.
Would it go to Alexandria or to Tripoli? That's a little more vulnerable to Axis attack and might not have the same level of support but its a lot closer to the expected front. Seems a bit odd to send them all the way east to Alex then have to haul them west again?
Small quibble. They wouldn't call it Pu-239 if they thought it was an isotope of uranium.
Relating to my question in my last post does Britain know anything of this.I actually thought that Pu wasn't available until the Chicago pile was in service but according to Wiki it was 1st synthesised by the Americans at Berkeley in Dec 40 by bombarding uranium in a cyclotron. It wasn't chemically identified until Feb and published in Mar so presumably that's the info you're using?
One thing in the favour of the Italian fleet. Their not as short of escorts for convoys as OTL as they don't have large numbers of DDs and CLs tied up as escorts for capital ships.
Steve
Another good update
Small pick though
Plutonium is an element, not an isotope of Uranium. If the researchers had thought it was an isotope of Uranium it would have been called Uranium 239
Astrodragon
Most things as expected, or even with the Yugoslav coup and Hitler's reaction as OTL. However a couple of questions.
Would it go to Alexandria or to Tripoli? That's a little more vulnerable to Axis attack and might not have the same level of support but its a lot closer to the expected front. Seems a bit odd to send them all the way east to Alex then have to haul them west again?
Small quibble. They wouldn't call it Pu-239 if they thought it was an isotope of uranium.
I actually thought that Pu wasn't available until the Chicago pile was in service but according to Wiki it was 1st synthesised by the Americans at Berkeley in Dec 40 by bombarding uranium in a cyclotron. It wasn't chemically identified until Feb and published in Mar so presumably that's the info you're using?
One thing in the favour of the Italian fleet. Their not as short of escorts for convoys as OTL as they don't have large numbers of DDs and CLs tied up as escorts for capital ships.
Steve
The convoy will go to Alex as that is where the main workshops are and much of the equipment is to re-equip troops currently in reserve.
Taking them to where they are needed is a lot easier now as the British have a secure coastal shipping route.
The Tiger convoy will be carrying about an armoured divisions worth of heavy equipment.
Oh, the Italians are starting to run out of destroyers too, particularly as the lack of heavy ships mean anything that might be intercepted needs more destroyers if they are to have any hope of fending off a cruiser/destroyer attack.
This shouldn't be a concern, because Tunisia and coastal Algeria aren't desert.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to fly them along the North African coast to the closer Tunisian airfields, and then stay there? Flying over land in this way is much safer and less demanding than the long over sea trips required to reach Malta.
Wouldn't it be far easier to dock at Bizerte (which is a very good, heavily defended deep water harbour), and then send the equipment by train to forces deployed in Tunisia. The French should have the required workshops and depots available. The troops can be shipped to meet their equipment much more easily that way, as transporting men is vastly easier than transporting their vehicles.It's a massive time saving and risk reduction to do it this way.
But Cyrenaica is desert, and thats where Rommel hopes to end up. Be rather embaressing if his army has to stop at the border for a month to get the kit modded
Trouble with flying over land is that the LW is in Algeria. So its a day flight to Malta, escorted by a navigation plane, or a night flight over Algeria and hope to find your airfield when daylight comes... also, quite a few of the planes are for Malta anyway.
Alex is the logistics hub for the British in NA. And like the Italians, they desertified the equipment on arrival. So its a lot simpler to bring it in, mod it, equip the units, then ship the units west. Changing all that sort of thing takes time (and remember, atm a lot of stuff is going out of Alex to Greece). Of course, with Tunisia now held, the convoy is a lot safer, it has a much smaller risk area between Sicily and Algeria, and will have better air cover.
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