Thanks. I was looking at the original OOB and the only reference I could find to 6th Army was as an alternate designation for the Armee des Alpes.
Battle of France - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
6th Army under Touchon was a formation that was activating i.e. it wasn't an original oob formation. Note IOTL they were run over by Guderian on the 15 May which triggered 9th Army's surrender
The Forge of Weyland
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
Sorry, if there are a few inconsistencies its because I've been away without all my notes
6th Army was formed from odds and sods to try and stop the panzers. Its currently crumbling, but not quite destroyed yet
6th Army was formed from odds and sods to try and stop the panzers. Its currently crumbling, but not quite destroyed yet
The next few days are going to get complicated.
There will be at least 7 battles going on (some over 2 days). So I'll probably write battle by battle and then add some notes at the end to show how it all fit together.
Yes, it's finally Tank Porn (with Moar Dakka!) time...
There will be at least 7 battles going on (some over 2 days). So I'll probably write battle by battle and then add some notes at the end to show how it all fit together.
Yes, it's finally Tank Porn (with Moar Dakka!) time...
Does anyone have a source that shows where all the German infantry divisions following on the Panzers were around the 16th May?
Lots of data for Sedan, and the panzer divisions, but nothing much at all on the following infantry.
If I cant find any I'll just have to get creative
Lots of data for Sedan, and the panzer divisions, but nothing much at all on the following infantry.
If I cant find any I'll just have to get creative
1 DCR is around Flavion on 15 May anyway and while incomplete OTL it inflicts as many tank write offs losses on the Germans as a dug in Guards army at Kursk. Bad thing to run into if it can refuel. and bear in mind that this does not have to fight as a division - they can always assign the major formations to other Divisions per British Infantry tank or French BCC practice if those divisions arrive.
2 and 3 DCR are generally around Rheims on 10 May 4DCR starts forming on 15th.
2 Army OTL has 3 DLC which OTL has 3 horse cavalry BDE and a Brigade legere Mechanique which has two Bn of 2 companies one of Panhard A/C and one of H35 tanks each with an M/C inf Co. It also has a Brigade de Chars de Combat with 3 bn of 45 tanks each 1 R35 the others FCM 36, and most of the german tanks are P 1 and 2.
The other factor again relates to speed if the german advance slows down for more than about 24 hours in the face of allied opposition the allied artillery will get into position ( as will the german) and begin to dominate the ground. you have to feed water and resupply the troops in contact through the beaten zone. 2 and 4 Panzer at least the unarmoured parts are probably stuck for several days until they can get infantry to close up, who then have to deal with big Scary I tanks. Not moving if very very bad for the German army
2 and 3 DCR are generally around Rheims on 10 May 4DCR starts forming on 15th.
2 Army OTL has 3 DLC which OTL has 3 horse cavalry BDE and a Brigade legere Mechanique which has two Bn of 2 companies one of Panhard A/C and one of H35 tanks each with an M/C inf Co. It also has a Brigade de Chars de Combat with 3 bn of 45 tanks each 1 R35 the others FCM 36, and most of the german tanks are P 1 and 2.
Probably further. An ID could march at maybe 30km per day - but that assumes no opposition or deployment and along a road and is not sustainable also bear in mind that a single division needs 40km of road space. and you have to pass all of that through any choke points. Amongst the problems will be if the French can take the Sedan Bridges under artillery fire regularly it will be hard to get the horses across and the whole things stacks up. If the Panzers keep moving the relative distance increases but the follow on horses dot stop eating fodder so more of the roadspace is occupied keeping the traffic jam fed.
The other factor again relates to speed if the german advance slows down for more than about 24 hours in the face of allied opposition the allied artillery will get into position ( as will the german) and begin to dominate the ground. you have to feed water and resupply the troops in contact through the beaten zone. 2 and 4 Panzer at least the unarmoured parts are probably stuck for several days until they can get infantry to close up, who then have to deal with big Scary I tanks. Not moving if very very bad for the German army
There were huge traffic jams in the Ardennes even by this point, and some Infantry Divisions were still in Germany.
I found an article about Flavion - somewhat pro-French slanted but still... Char-B1s, unsupported and mostly out of fuel, sitting out in the open while the panzers swarmed round them, slowly chipping away at one system after another - from the German PoV it must have been like fighting one of those videogame bosses with 10,000HP. About the only thing that could do more than chip was direct fire from 88s and 105mm howitzers.
If the French tanks had had any sort of support so they didn't end up isolated and abandoned when the fuel and ammo ran out....
Remember that there are two other bridgeheads to worry about - at Montherme and Dinant
True. However even with 3 bridgeheads the Germans are having tremendous traffic issues trying to get everything forward.
Eliminate one of these, and its unlikely you can reroute the forces any time soon, there just isn't the road capacity. So more German units are twiddling their thumbs watching the Meuse.
The German High Command didn't really have any plans for this, because basically there was nothing they could do. The offensive is predicated on everything going right
Derek Pullem
Donor
This is the 25 May around Dunkirk, might give you an idea of how far they fall behind / which ones are in the lead
Ask and you shall receive.
How it started
17b68343-8d9a-45d5-9812-6772d1a2c3e7 hosted at ImgBB
Image 17b68343-8d9a-45d5-9812-6772d1a2c3e7 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co
The Front at 15-17th May
The Front at 18-20 May
These are screenshots from the "Fall Gelb" book of Osprey.
Ah! Thanks, those are very helpfull!Ask and you shall receive.
How it started
17b68343-8d9a-45d5-9812-6772d1a2c3e7 hosted at ImgBB
Image 17b68343-8d9a-45d5-9812-6772d1a2c3e7 hosted in ImgBB
The Front at 15-17th May
The Front at 18-20 May
These are screenshots from the "Fall Gelb" book of Osprey.
What about you write all of them, so that you can edit when one battle affects the other as they take place at the same time. We can wait a bit more if needed.