man, what is it with all the "CSA Survives" threads coming up lately? The CSA, even if it somehow manages to achieve independence (quite a feat in itself) has a huge hurdle to overcome before it can do much of anything: it's economic outlook is dismal. No industry, few railroads, an incredibly inefficient slave-based system that produces fewer goods (agricultural or otherwise) than the north, and no capital to invest in much of anything (the whole south has less money than NY state). Plus, King Cotton is about to get major competition from Egypt (Sheik Cotton?) and India (Rajah Cotton?). How does the south overcome all this? Are we assuming that for some reason Britain and France decide to give huge amounts of money to the south? If so, what will be the affects on European politics (with money going to the south, it isn't going somewhere else)? Assuming that the European money are investments instead of gifts, what will the long term outcome of a CSA where foreigners own most of the modern businesses and railroads?
North And South:The Split
- Thread starter Straha
- Start date
Straha
Banned
1 lincoln isn't the head o f the socialist party just a prominent speaker
2 the CSA ends up leaving the eastern mexicaa states and keeping the western ones as a corridor
3 the USA disn't care too mcuh about the phillipines
4 the telegram is to the CSA
5 the USA has plans for war withj ust about any power so trench warfare is in the equation
6 Trostsky takes power
2 the CSA ends up leaving the eastern mexicaa states and keeping the western ones as a corridor
3 the USA disn't care too mcuh about the phillipines
4 the telegram is to the CSA
5 the USA has plans for war withj ust about any power so trench warfare is in the equation
6 Trostsky takes power
Yea! The C.S.A. leaders aren't that stupid. They will make new industries to replace slavery. Also if France or Great Britian help the C.S.A. in the ACW then it ain't going to let its investment go bankrupt they will help with some money issues
Straha
Banned
1931-the nationalists are killed and the chinse civil war ends with a communist victory. The chinses begin rearming and making a big fleet.
-a spate of rascist radicalism and a drop in funding causes many scientists to leave for better off places like canada or the union.
1932-manchuria occupied by japan.
-Teddy Roosevelt the II elected president on the sociliat platform.
1933-ulster granted independence from great britain
-soclialized medicine introduced in america
-alaska admitted as a full province to canada
1934-italy goes communist
1935-Canada secedes from the british empire but stays in the westenr alliance as the republic of canada
-northwest terretoris admitted as yellowknife and keewating provinces
1936-spain and portugal go communist and join the comintern
-ungava province split off from queec province
1939-the allies declare war on the comintern after findland,french indochina and yugoslavia are invaded at the same time
-K-1 missiles are deployed
-the mexican war of revolution begins
-yucatan taken over by a communist military dictator, the governemnt flees to belize
1940-USA extends lend-lease to imperial japan
-K-2 missiles are deployed
-the Mexican communist republic invades sonora
1941-USA enters the war after boston is hit by a K-2 missile and the mexican armies attack new mexico.
1942-communist rebels lead by Juan Peron seize power in argenitca.
-k-3 missiles are deployed
1943-The CSA officailly enters the war on the allies side and extends its declarations of war to the full comintern.
-argentina is liberated and is rebuilt
-iceland occupied by the USA and annexed post war.
1944-a soviet K-3 filled with nerve gas is fired at berlin and kills 10,000
-yucatan and central america are liberated in operation SEA LION
-fulgencio Batista takes power in Cuba.
1945-mexico falls
-the natons of Siberia,mongolia,Khanbalyk,yakustia,indonesia,sinkiang,tibet,mekong(carved out of part of southern china) and china are put under japanese influnce at the conference in berlin.
-Nanking and macao hit with nuclear weapons
-Marshall plan established with the USA and the rest of the western allies rebuilid affected nations. Argentina,russia,eastern europe,gemrnay,scandanavia,mexico and the yucatan benefit from it to the point where by the end of the 1950's theyre first world nations.
-Belzie holds a vote on joining yucatan and a large majority supports joining yucatan.
-Britain sells off bahamas,jamaica and trinidad to america to help pay off part of its debts
-greenland occupied and incorporated to canada
-The USSR is defeated in World War II. Immediately, the UK,Germany,the CSA USA & Japan rush to grab the Soviet K-3 missiles & the Soviet missile scientists. The Allies commence their own research programs in order to develop V2 type missiles
-Japan,the CSA,south africa,the seoul pact
-Teddy roosevelt the II dies and his vice president Joe Kennedy suceeds
1946-US President Joe Kennedy says that "an iron curtain has descended over the pacific"
-india given independence as a united nation
-Seoul pact formed with japan and its occupied natiosn as membmers
-Pacific Alliance Treaty Organization(PATO) formed with the USA,chile,mexico,canada,astrailia and argenia.
-a spate of rascist radicalism and a drop in funding causes many scientists to leave for better off places like canada or the union.
1932-manchuria occupied by japan.
-Teddy Roosevelt the II elected president on the sociliat platform.
1933-ulster granted independence from great britain
-soclialized medicine introduced in america
-alaska admitted as a full province to canada
1934-italy goes communist
1935-Canada secedes from the british empire but stays in the westenr alliance as the republic of canada
-northwest terretoris admitted as yellowknife and keewating provinces
1936-spain and portugal go communist and join the comintern
-ungava province split off from queec province
1939-the allies declare war on the comintern after findland,french indochina and yugoslavia are invaded at the same time
-K-1 missiles are deployed
-the mexican war of revolution begins
-yucatan taken over by a communist military dictator, the governemnt flees to belize
1940-USA extends lend-lease to imperial japan
-K-2 missiles are deployed
-the Mexican communist republic invades sonora
1941-USA enters the war after boston is hit by a K-2 missile and the mexican armies attack new mexico.
1942-communist rebels lead by Juan Peron seize power in argenitca.
-k-3 missiles are deployed
1943-The CSA officailly enters the war on the allies side and extends its declarations of war to the full comintern.
-argentina is liberated and is rebuilt
-iceland occupied by the USA and annexed post war.
1944-a soviet K-3 filled with nerve gas is fired at berlin and kills 10,000
-yucatan and central america are liberated in operation SEA LION
-fulgencio Batista takes power in Cuba.
1945-mexico falls
-the natons of Siberia,mongolia,Khanbalyk,yakustia,indonesia,sinkiang,tibet,mekong(carved out of part of southern china) and china are put under japanese influnce at the conference in berlin.
-Nanking and macao hit with nuclear weapons
-Marshall plan established with the USA and the rest of the western allies rebuilid affected nations. Argentina,russia,eastern europe,gemrnay,scandanavia,mexico and the yucatan benefit from it to the point where by the end of the 1950's theyre first world nations.
-Belzie holds a vote on joining yucatan and a large majority supports joining yucatan.
-Britain sells off bahamas,jamaica and trinidad to america to help pay off part of its debts
-greenland occupied and incorporated to canada
-The USSR is defeated in World War II. Immediately, the UK,Germany,the CSA USA & Japan rush to grab the Soviet K-3 missiles & the Soviet missile scientists. The Allies commence their own research programs in order to develop V2 type missiles
-Japan,the CSA,south africa,the seoul pact
-Teddy roosevelt the II dies and his vice president Joe Kennedy suceeds
1946-US President Joe Kennedy says that "an iron curtain has descended over the pacific"
-india given independence as a united nation
-Seoul pact formed with japan and its occupied natiosn as membmers
-Pacific Alliance Treaty Organization(PATO) formed with the USA,chile,mexico,canada,astrailia and argenia.
Did the C.S.A. get any of the Soviet Scientists and what nations are in the Seoul Pact?
Straha
Banned
the next part will be the first part of the cold way and it deals with the expansion of humankind into space,codl war politics and the movements to give nonwhites equal rights and end prohibition in the confederacy. before I post it I'll be doing an entry that deals with the social changes of both union and confederacy with a mention of the cold war.
Straha
Banned
social and technical changes of the world up to 1946
The Confederate States of america is a conservative nation where chnage is delibritaly slowed. The white man is obviously in charge in this nation. Blacks,american indians and mexicans have to have internal passports. THe CSA is a national security state with subjects ranging from abortion,social democracy and ending prohibition beign verboten to mention in te news on radio,TV or the papers. Industrialization is slow to come to the CSA but it comes anyway. The CSA technically has freedom of religion but for all intents and purposes the southern baptist church is the ONLY religion. Even thoguh the constitution states that no religion is to be established, southern baptist leaders are given influence in congress and a veto on lawss. Socialism or even social democracy are taboo in the CSA because of a unionist taint and the connection with the poor. Political dissidents are sent to prison with hard labor,torture and execution being common punishments for minor offenses. Women only got te vote in 1940 in the CSA, which is 30 years behind the union. The CSA calls the USA and canada "a bunch of godless commies" and the USA calls them "Idiot capitolist bible thumpers"(this shows the love
). Science fiction and fantasy are so unpopular with the governemtn that in the CSA, Heinlein and tolkein are a few of many banned authors. President Strom Thurmond is presiding over a nation that is despised y everyone else on the north american continent so things will be tense especially with a secessionist party thats formed in the far western(mexican) states of the CSA. In this timeline rock music will be a yankee thign as a large black population has moved north.
the USA is a nation that is the most liberla in the world. Social democratic policies like a 40 hours workweek,national healthcare and welfare are either implemented or are beign planned. The USA is far more socially liberla with no prohibition being done. Marijuana and other drugs are legal and are gaining acceptance in society. The Union is a nation that believes that technology is the future. Race relations between white and black are far better than OTL. One side effect of this is that the same acceptance of hispanic-white intermarriage that happened post 1950's of OTL will also happen with black and asian marriages. America in this universe follows the path of liberal socialism with the rest of its allies around the world doing so. Science fiction is far more popular in the 1946 of this than OTL's west with one exception, the CSA. The society's zeitgeist is at the point where by 1970 they predict a black or president at soem point. The young local New York representitive and born of a former slave Martin Lithor King jr whose family emigrated from the CSA before he was born is a rising star and he might run for president someday after he gets to be 35... Rock Music won't form south of the border but it will arrive as a union invention.
The cold war in this timeline will be less tense than the one between the USA/USSR because both are capitolist. Japanese culture like anime and manga will be part of the counterculture so it will filter into america a little bit earleir thna IOTL but slower. THings will be tense in the 50's and early 60's but from that point on the cold war is calmer with detente until Japan's empire collapses in a soft landing in 1991. On a side note there won't be the flourishing of japanse pop culture in the 90's-2000's because the stuff will have been available for a longer time. With a right-wing enemy america will go on a more leftist slant so imagine Fidel Castro ando ther lefttis radiclas in south america getting aid and troops. Central america and at least western south america have better economies than OTL because of the foreing aid,alliance of the USA and no drug war. Being that the USA and CSA are on opposite sides of the codl war thier two cultures will diverge farther and farther....
some notable dates for inventions up to 1946
1890-first submachine gun is invented
1901-first airplane flown
1915-first tank invented
1919-talking motion picture invented
1924-transistor invented and patented
1926-first jet airplane flown
1933-first cigarship invented
1938-ENIAC computer system put online
1942-K-3 missile invented(think primitive ICBM)
1943-first saucerfjet plane flown
The Confederate States of america is a conservative nation where chnage is delibritaly slowed. The white man is obviously in charge in this nation. Blacks,american indians and mexicans have to have internal passports. THe CSA is a national security state with subjects ranging from abortion,social democracy and ending prohibition beign verboten to mention in te news on radio,TV or the papers. Industrialization is slow to come to the CSA but it comes anyway. The CSA technically has freedom of religion but for all intents and purposes the southern baptist church is the ONLY religion. Even thoguh the constitution states that no religion is to be established, southern baptist leaders are given influence in congress and a veto on lawss. Socialism or even social democracy are taboo in the CSA because of a unionist taint and the connection with the poor. Political dissidents are sent to prison with hard labor,torture and execution being common punishments for minor offenses. Women only got te vote in 1940 in the CSA, which is 30 years behind the union. The CSA calls the USA and canada "a bunch of godless commies" and the USA calls them "Idiot capitolist bible thumpers"(this shows the love
). Science fiction and fantasy are so unpopular with the governemtn that in the CSA, Heinlein and tolkein are a few of many banned authors. President Strom Thurmond is presiding over a nation that is despised y everyone else on the north american continent so things will be tense especially with a secessionist party thats formed in the far western(mexican) states of the CSA. In this timeline rock music will be a yankee thign as a large black population has moved north.the USA is a nation that is the most liberla in the world. Social democratic policies like a 40 hours workweek,national healthcare and welfare are either implemented or are beign planned. The USA is far more socially liberla with no prohibition being done. Marijuana and other drugs are legal and are gaining acceptance in society. The Union is a nation that believes that technology is the future. Race relations between white and black are far better than OTL. One side effect of this is that the same acceptance of hispanic-white intermarriage that happened post 1950's of OTL will also happen with black and asian marriages. America in this universe follows the path of liberal socialism with the rest of its allies around the world doing so. Science fiction is far more popular in the 1946 of this than OTL's west with one exception, the CSA. The society's zeitgeist is at the point where by 1970 they predict a black or president at soem point. The young local New York representitive and born of a former slave Martin Lithor King jr whose family emigrated from the CSA before he was born is a rising star and he might run for president someday after he gets to be 35... Rock Music won't form south of the border but it will arrive as a union invention.
The cold war in this timeline will be less tense than the one between the USA/USSR because both are capitolist. Japanese culture like anime and manga will be part of the counterculture so it will filter into america a little bit earleir thna IOTL but slower. THings will be tense in the 50's and early 60's but from that point on the cold war is calmer with detente until Japan's empire collapses in a soft landing in 1991. On a side note there won't be the flourishing of japanse pop culture in the 90's-2000's because the stuff will have been available for a longer time. With a right-wing enemy america will go on a more leftist slant so imagine Fidel Castro ando ther lefttis radiclas in south america getting aid and troops. Central america and at least western south america have better economies than OTL because of the foreing aid,alliance of the USA and no drug war. Being that the USA and CSA are on opposite sides of the codl war thier two cultures will diverge farther and farther....
some notable dates for inventions up to 1946
1890-first submachine gun is invented
1901-first airplane flown
1915-first tank invented
1919-talking motion picture invented
1924-transistor invented and patented
1926-first jet airplane flown
1933-first cigarship invented
1938-ENIAC computer system put online
1942-K-3 missile invented(think primitive ICBM)
1943-first saucerfjet plane flown
I think you guys are glossing over the economic problems of the south after the war. I'll agree that the CSA can industrialize and survive if Europe gives them a huge infusion of cash. However, wouldn't this have an affect on the world in general? If Europe is subsidizing the CSA, what OTL expenditures would it replace... would there be some colonial efforts not done, some wars not fought? If the new industries and railroads in the south were owned by foreigners, would the south advance slower than the north since the profits from all this new stuff is going overseas?