List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Amazing tree! Suggestion: Juan, prince of asturias and girona, is healthier and lives to succeed to the thrones of Castile and Aragon, securing the trastamara dynasty with his wife margaret of austria.
Juan III of Castile and Aragon (1478-1538) m. Margaret of Austria (1480-1540) in 1497
1) Infanta Isabel (1498-
2) Infanta María (1500-1513)
3) Fernando, Prince of Asturias and Girona (1501-
4) Infanta Margarita (1503-
5) Infante Alfonso (1505-1510)
6) Infante Maximiliano (1507-
7) Infanta Catalina (1509-
8) Infante Felipe (1510-)
1) Infanta Isabel (1498-
2) Infanta María (1500-1513)
3) Fernando, Prince of Asturias and Girona (1501-
4) Infanta Margarita (1503-
5) Infante Alfonso (1505-1510)
6) Infante Maximiliano (1507-
7) Infanta Catalina (1509-
8) Infante Felipe (1510-)
Alternate Iberian union: Sebastian of Portugal is born female.
Carlos, Prince of Asturias (1545-1570) m. a) Elisabeth, Princess of France (1545-1568), b) Catherine I, Queen of Portugal (1554-1599) [1]
1a) Isabella (1561-1629) m. Sigismund III of Poland (1554-1619) [2]
2a) Catalina (1563-1615) m. Francesco I de Medici (1541-1587) [3]
3a) Maria (1566-1633) became abbess
4a) Joanna (1568-1622) m. Charles X of France (1572-1639) [4]
5b) Charles II of Spain and I of Portugal (1570-1625) m. a) Marie Elisabeth of France (1572-1588) [5], b) Anna of Spain (1571-1628) [6]
6b) John, Duke of Guimaraes (1570-1630) m. Margherita Farnese (1567-1643)
[1] Obviously she won't be going off to battle here so she lives longer.
[2] Catherine of Austria didn't miscarry ITTL
[3] His second wife (here Bianca Cappello was just a mistress)
[4] Fictional twin of Marie Elisabeth.
[5] Naturally she lives a bit longer.
[6] Gender-bent longer living Ferdinand Prince of Asturias, OTL son of Philip II of Spain and Anna of Austria
Carlos, Prince of Asturias (1545-1570) m. a) Elisabeth, Princess of France (1545-1568), b) Catherine I, Queen of Portugal (1554-1599) [1]
1a) Isabella (1561-1629) m. Sigismund III of Poland (1554-1619) [2]
2a) Catalina (1563-1615) m. Francesco I de Medici (1541-1587) [3]
3a) Maria (1566-1633) became abbess
4a) Joanna (1568-1622) m. Charles X of France (1572-1639) [4]
5b) Charles II of Spain and I of Portugal (1570-1625) m. a) Marie Elisabeth of France (1572-1588) [5], b) Anna of Spain (1571-1628) [6]
6b) John, Duke of Guimaraes (1570-1630) m. Margherita Farnese (1567-1643)
[1] Obviously she won't be going off to battle here so she lives longer.
[2] Catherine of Austria didn't miscarry ITTL
[3] His second wife (here Bianca Cappello was just a mistress)
[4] Fictional twin of Marie Elisabeth.
[5] Naturally she lives a bit longer.
[6] Gender-bent longer living Ferdinand Prince of Asturias, OTL son of Philip II of Spain and Anna of Austria
I can not see a marriage between Carlos and Elisabeth going ahead here and Catalina’s match to Francesco de‘ Medici make no sense for either side. Maybe she could marry Ferdinand instead of his OTL wife (as they would not marry in any case in this scenario)
POD: Prince Juan and Margaret of Austria switch death dates.
King Juan III of Aragon and Castile (1478-1530) m. Margaret of Austria (1480-1497) (a) Germaine of Foix (1488-1536) (b).
1a. Stillborn daughter (1497).
2b. King Alfonso XII of Castile and VI of Aragon (1505-1561) m. Catherine of Austria (1507-1573)
3b. Infante Fernando (1507-1509)
4b. Infanta Margaret (1510-1548) m. King Henry IX of England (1511-1553).
5b. King Ferdinand IV of Naples (1512-1558).
6b. Infante Juan Arch-bishop of Toledo.(1515-1542).
7b. Infanta Isabel (1518-1569).
King Juan III of Aragon and Castile (1478-1530) m. Margaret of Austria (1480-1497) (a) Germaine of Foix (1488-1536) (b).
1a. Stillborn daughter (1497).
2b. King Alfonso XII of Castile and VI of Aragon (1505-1561) m. Catherine of Austria (1507-1573)
3b. Infante Fernando (1507-1509)
4b. Infanta Margaret (1510-1548) m. King Henry IX of England (1511-1553).
5b. King Ferdinand IV of Naples (1512-1558).
6b. Infante Juan Arch-bishop of Toledo.(1515-1542).
7b. Infanta Isabel (1518-1569).
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Alfonso would be XII
Imagine that Fernando would be given naples as Ferdinand IV
And Juan is made arch-bishop of toledo.
Thank you. Any thoughts on who Ferdinand and Isabel could marry? I'm racking my brain for spouses for them.
The New Year's prince survived! I guess that his wife died in childbirth.
Isabel could marry Philip II, HRE, son and heir of charles V and Mary tudor born in 1516.
And Ferdinand i suggest Maria of portugal, that could be a daughter of Joao III and Elenaor born in 1518
Isabel is of a good age to marry the Dauphin de France, Ferdinand can either marry a surviving Charlotte of France or Mary Tudor
Eleanor will NOT marry in Portugal here. If Ferdinand inherited Italy an Italian princess with ties with Naples is a likelier match. Can I suggest a daughter of Massimiliano Sforza and Bona Sforza or Eleonora d’Este (b. 1515) or a surviving Isabella Maria d’Este (b. 1519) if her elder sister still choose the convent?
Henry IX will be likely older than the OTL New Year Prince as Catherine would marry Henry VIII when was planned as I doubt who Juan would refute to honor the agreement between his parents and so would pay his sister’s dowry at the right moment
makes much more sense.
But you agree with isabel and the possible heir of charles and mary?
I think Charles would go for a French match but it is not impossible. Isabel could also end in Portugal (or her sister could end in Portugal and she in England)
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Inspired by this:
@Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @Ryden_Br
Augustus II, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania [1697-1704; 1709-1733], Elector of Saxony [as Friedrich August I, 1694-1733] (1670-1733) m: 1693 Christiane Eberhardine of Bayreuth (1671-1727)
[2] after the death of August the Strong both due to his son's successful military record and the fact that he only has one surviving son at the time (Karl VI has none), Möritz does not get elected as king of Poland due to a combination of Polish fears that they will be subsumed into the empire in the inevitable struggle that will ensue when Karl VI dies, as well as that Möritz will "massacre the patriots". While there is talk of electing James Francis Edward Stuart, ultimately, the Poles elect Stanislas Leszczynski's TTL son-in-law, Ludwig Georg of Baden-Baden [3]. Sadly, due to both Ludwig Georg's sons predeceasing him and his grandson being too young, the emperor's brother is chosen. On the understanding that he is to marry Ludwig Georg's youngest daughter, Maria Karolina Franziska (b.1737)
[3] he wanted to marry Marie Leszczynska OTL.
@Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @Ryden_Br
Augustus II, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania [1697-1704; 1709-1733], Elector of Saxony [as Friedrich August I, 1694-1733] (1670-1733) m: 1693 Christiane Eberhardine of Bayreuth (1671-1727)
Möritz II Hermann, Holy Roman Emperor [as Möritz I, 1740-1750], Elector of Saxony [1733-1750] (1696-1750) m: 1719 Maria Josepha of Austria (1699-1757)
Möritz August Philipp, Erbprinz of Saxony (1721-1725)
Anna Maria Amalie (b.1722)
Albrecht II [1] August, Holy Roman Emperor [from 1750], Elector of Saxony [as Albrecht VI, from 1750] (b.1723)
Maria Elisabeth Christine (b.1725)
Maria Karoline Auguste (b.1728)
Stillborn Child (1730)
Maria Josepha Eberhardine (b.1731)
Sigmund Möritz, King of Poland [as Sigmund IV, from 1761 [2]] (b.1734)
Friedrich Joseph, Duke of Saxony (b.1735)
[1] Albrecht II of Austria was elected, but never crowned as emperor, hence why the numerals are the same. He would also be the sixth Albrecht to rule Saxony as a whole, not specifically the sixth elector. Albrecht V was duke of Coburg (1648-1699), and Albrecht IV was duke of Eisenach (1599-1644)[2] after the death of August the Strong both due to his son's successful military record and the fact that he only has one surviving son at the time (Karl VI has none), Möritz does not get elected as king of Poland due to a combination of Polish fears that they will be subsumed into the empire in the inevitable struggle that will ensue when Karl VI dies, as well as that Möritz will "massacre the patriots". While there is talk of electing James Francis Edward Stuart, ultimately, the Poles elect Stanislas Leszczynski's TTL son-in-law, Ludwig Georg of Baden-Baden [3]. Sadly, due to both Ludwig Georg's sons predeceasing him and his grandson being too young, the emperor's brother is chosen. On the understanding that he is to marry Ludwig Georg's youngest daughter, Maria Karolina Franziska (b.1737)
[3] he wanted to marry Marie Leszczynska OTL.
POD: Francis I and Claude of France swap death dates.
Claude, Duchess of Brittany (1499-1547) m. Francis I, King of France (1494-1525)
1) Louise (1515-1518)
2) Charlotte (1516-1524)
3) Francis II, King of France (1518-1576) m. Maria of Portugal (1521-1577)
4) Henry I, Duke of Brittany (1519-1579) m. Catherine de Medici (1519-1589)
5) Madeleine (1520-1537) m. James V of Scotland (1512-1542)
6) Charles (1522-1567) m. Jeanne III of Navarre (1528-1572)
7) Margaret (1523-1574) m. Emmanuel Philibert of Savoy (1528-1580)
Claude, Duchess of Brittany (1499-1547) m. Francis I, King of France (1494-1525)
1) Louise (1515-1518)
2) Charlotte (1516-1524)
3) Francis II, King of France (1518-1576) m. Maria of Portugal (1521-1577)
4) Henry I, Duke of Brittany (1519-1579) m. Catherine de Medici (1519-1589)
5) Madeleine (1520-1537) m. James V of Scotland (1512-1542)
6) Charles (1522-1567) m. Jeanne III of Navarre (1528-1572)
7) Margaret (1523-1574) m. Emmanuel Philibert of Savoy (1528-1580)
She was considered too low for him as Duke of Orleans. No way she'll get him as Duke of Brittany.
Henry to Catherine and Margaret to Emmanuel Philibert are extremely unlikely in this scenario. Jeanne of Navarre would NOT exist here as her parents would never married