Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond

In 1982, defense gobbled up an astonishing 70 percent of the USSR’s national budget, and supplied billions of dollars worth of military aid to the United Arab Republic (UAR), Libya, South Yemen, the PLO, Cuba, and North Korea - all “sworn enemies” of the United States. That aid included tanks and armored troop carriers, hundreds of fighter planes, as well as anti-aircraft systems, artillery systems, and all sorts of high tech equipment for which the USSR was the main supplier. Romanov's main goal was to avoid an open war while also placating Dmitry Ustinov and Andrei Gromyko back home. But even this left the Soviets coming up short.
Well, Palestine remains as OTL
Though Kennedy did not arm just anybody looking for American resources (he explicitly forbade the CIA and its director, former head of Naval Intelligence and Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, from meeting with anyone but indigenous Afghan mujahedeen, let alone arming, training, coaching, or indoctrinating them)
On the one hand, this stymies OBL's effort in wheeling and dealing US defense money to help build al-Qaeda and could be an effort at weakening fundamentalist terrorism. OTOH, I could see a weakened ALQ be filled by a more effective and structured Taliban. So, this can go either way. Perhaps butterflies that stymie 9/11 in 2001, but not entirely remove it
Romanov simply believed in the Andropov style of reform (economy-first) in contrast with others, such as Gorbachev and Tereshkova, who also favored various degrees of political liberalization
Well, this makes me wonder if the belief of the USSR actually falling earlier will happen. Andropov was still a hardliner politically, but ITTL allowed the economic reforms to remain. Could we still see the USSR around with a more "socialism with Russian characteristics" element that China holds IOTL?

Overall, loving to see another post again
 
So Have I is going to take time. Even today sexism is well entrenched and there's a lot of pushback. So even after Polanski gets convicted there's going to be pushback and anger from the sexist manbabies.

I mean even Brock Turner has idiots trying to play down what he did and somehow blame the victim.

Speaking of, I actually had some thoughts on the Roman Polanski movie: It's based on PRM's suggestion with some of my own modifications and ideas.

The beginning shows Samatha Geimer in the aftermath of her assault. She returns home and tells her mother.

The Police go and arrest Polanski (Despite him trying to get them to shrug off the accusation) from there we see him get processed, fingerprinted, etc.

The District attorney, John Van de Kamp assigns the case to two prosecutors I imagine a man and a woman. The man is a little skeptical of the case (Partially because he knows how these things go, but there is a part of him that's skeptical) whereas the woman is more willing to take it on.

They meet with Geimer, her parents and her attorney where she tells them the whole story. The man is still a little skeptical but he's not a dick about it and the woman fully supports her.

They have an arraignment for Polanski where the charges are laid out in full terms. He pleads not guilty. Later on, his attorneys and himself meet with the prosecutors and the district attorney where they offer a deal. Polanski will plead down to lesser charges, "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse with a minor." When Polanski and his lawyers leave, they discuss it.

Both de Kamp and the man agree they should consider it. The woman is hesitant and says they should talk this over with Geimer and her parents, as well as her attorney.

As you can imagine, Geimer, her parents, and her attorneys are not happy when they are told. This is what I would consider one of the most important scenes in the movie because Geimer says she will not stay silent, she will speak up. Apart of that is I imagine that Geimer she looks straight at the man Prosecutor and asks him point blank "Do you believe me?" He's somewhat caught offguard by the question and takes a moment to answer "Yes". Geimer says she wants to go public which makes the prosecutors and her attorney nervous, knowing what usually happens to someone (Particualrly woman) who accuse high profile and powerful of something awful of this magnitude. She says "I know the risks, but I don't care."

Samantha does her interview with the LA times. There's a monologue of people getting their papers and seeing the interview. Especially Jack Nicholson and Anjelica Houston who at this point are like "We're screwed." Marilyn Monroe and Shirley Temple Black are also seen reading the interview; Monroe shows particular horror. However, there are a lot of celebrities and journalists who defend Polanski; many outright slut shame her, others express doubt, and they all play up Polanski's accomplishments as a director. Some of Polanski's lawyers appear on TV outright smearing Geimer. The toll of all of this is shown coming down on Samantha and her parents. Especially her mother who is just you have to imagine full of guilt for introducing her daughter to Polanski in the first place.

However, then Polanski gives the infamous interview where he pretty much says, "Everyone wants to f little girls." He also plays down what he did. This is a major turning point in the case; the male and female prosecutor meet Van Der Kamp in his office. He shows them the interview and they are all appalled by it. "Who does this man think he is?" de Kamp asks. Neither the Man or the Woman know what to say (as a sign of development the man is shown to be visibly disgusted, showing that he's more willing to believe her now). Van der Kamp pretty much tells them "Whatever you need to do, you make sure this guy goes to prison.

Marilyn Monroe meets the Geimer family at their house and has a talk; we find out that they're strongly considering dropping the charges, but Marilyn encourages them to keep fighting, relating her own experiences and offering to pay for their legal fees. She then gives her own public statement in support of Geimer in an interview, before publishing an Op-Ed in the LA Times relating her experience. We also see Shirley Temple Black publish her Op-Ed, as well as her autobiography (this could be around August September). We see some of Polanski's apologists trying to play it down, but it's clear that a few of them have been affected even if they're in denial.

The Trial begins. Samantha Geimer goes first, and we finally see the scene (it's pretty horrific). She maintains her composure under the cross examination, but breaks down afterwards. Nicholson and Houston are put on the stand, and not only are they forced to admit that they left Geimer alone, Huston is forced to admit that she came back and tried to get Polanski to open the door but gave up when he didn't.

Polanski takes the stand, and is aggrieved and indignant. While they are able to trip him up in a few places (they bring up the interview, and he's unable to explain why he didn't unlock the door when Angelica Houston knocked on it) he maintains his composure and acts like he's being persecuted.

I'm also thinking that there's a scene where a brick is thrown through the Geimer's house, with the word "whore" written on the brick.

The closing arguments come. The Woman gives the closing argument, being firm but compassionate. Three days pass, and the jury returns with a verdict. Polanski is smug at first, but as the first guilty charge is read out his smile vanishes, and he becomes increasingly shocked as he's found guilty of the other charges and the sentence is declared. As Polanski is led away, Geimer looks at him without fear.

The scene outside the courthouse is triumphant, and Polanski's lawyers can only rant about how they intend to appeal.

Note: I'm thinking the movie can come out in 1997 or so, and it does cause controversy. Some of the celebrities who took Polanski's side are put in the hot seat all over again. Scorsese in particular is dogged.
 
Well, Palestine remains as OTL

On the one hand, this stymies OBL's effort in wheeling and dealing US defense money to help build al-Qaeda and could be an effort at weakening fundamentalist terrorism. OTOH, I could see a weakened ALQ be filled by a more effective and structured Taliban. So, this can go either way. Perhaps butterflies that stymie 9/11 in 2001, but not entirely remove it

Well, this makes me wonder if the belief of the USSR actually falling earlier will happen. Andropov was still a hardliner politically, but ITTL allowed the economic reforms to remain. Could we still see the USSR around with a more "socialism with Russian characteristics" element that China holds IOTL?

Overall, loving to see another post again
Bin Laden was radicalized in part by how badly the mosque crisis was handled, and that was handled better here.
 
So Have I is going to take time. Even today sexism is well entrenched and there's a lot of pushback. So even after Polanski gets convicted there's going to be pushback and anger from the sexist manbabies.

I mean even Brock Turner has idiots trying to play down what he did and somehow blame the victim.

Speaking of, I actually had some thoughts on the Roman Polanski movie: It's based on PRM's suggestion with some of my own modifications and ideas.

The beginning shows Samatha Geimer in the aftermath of her assault. She returns home and tells her mother.

The Police go and arrest Polanski (Despite him trying to get them to shrug off the accusation) from there we see him get processed, fingerprinted, etc.

The District attorney, John Van de Kamp assigns the case to two prosecutors I imagine a man and a woman. The man is a little skeptical of the case (Partially because he knows how these things go, but there is a part of him that's skeptical) whereas the woman is more willing to take it on.

They meet with Geimer, her parents and her attorney where she tells them the whole story. The man is still a little skeptical but he's not a dick about it and the woman fully supports her.

They have an arraignment for Polanski where the charges are laid out in full terms. He pleads not guilty. Later on, his attorneys and himself meet with the prosecutors and the district attorney where they offer a deal. Polanski will plead down to lesser charges, "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse with a minor." When Polanski and his lawyers leave, they discuss it.

Both de Kamp and the man agree they should consider it. The woman is hesitant and says they should talk this over with Geimer and her parents, as well as her attorney.

As you can imagine, Geimer, her parents, and her attorneys are not happy when they are told. This is what I would consider one of the most important scenes in the movie because Geimer says she will not stay silent, she will speak up. Apart of that is I imagine that Geimer she looks straight at the man Prosecutor and asks him point blank "Do you believe me?" He's somewhat caught offguard by the question and takes a moment to answer "Yes". Geimer says she wants to go public which makes the prosecutors and her attorney nervous, knowing what usually happens to someone (Particualrly woman) who accuse high profile and powerful of something awful of this magnitude. She says "I know the risks, but I don't care."

Samantha does her interview with the LA times. There's a monologue of people getting their papers and seeing the interview. Especially Jack Nicholson and Anjelica Houston who at this point are like "We're screwed." Marilyn Monroe and Shirley Temple Black are also seen reading the interview; Monroe shows particular horror. However, there are a lot of celebrities and journalists who defend Polanski; many outright slut shame her, others express doubt, and they all play up Polanski's accomplishments as a director. Some of Polanski's lawyers appear on TV outright smearing Geimer. The toll of all of this is shown coming down on Samantha and her parents. Especially her mother who is just you have to imagine full of guilt for introducing her daughter to Polanski in the first place.

However, then Polanski gives the infamous interview where he pretty much says, "Everyone wants to f little girls." He also plays down what he did. This is a major turning point in the case; the male and female prosecutor meet Van Der Kamp in his office. He shows them the interview and they are all appalled by it. "Who does this man think he is?" de Kamp asks. Neither the Man or the Woman know what to say (as a sign of development the man is shown to be visibly disgusted, showing that he's more willing to believe her now). Van der Kamp pretty much tells them "Whatever you need to do, you make sure this guy goes to prison.

Marilyn Monroe meets the Geimer family at their house and has a talk; we find out that they're strongly considering dropping the charges, but Marilyn encourages them to keep fighting, relating her own experiences and offering to pay for their legal fees. She then gives her own public statement in support of Geimer in an interview, before publishing an Op-Ed in the LA Times relating her experience. We also see Shirley Temple Black publish her Op-Ed, as well as her autobiography (this could be around August September). We see some of Polanski's apologists trying to play it down, but it's clear that a few of them have been affected even if they're in denial.

The Trial begins. Samantha Geimer goes first, and we finally see the scene (it's pretty horrific). She maintains her composure under the cross examination, but breaks down afterwards. Nicholson and Houston are put on the stand, and not only are they forced to admit that they left Geimer alone, Huston is forced to admit that she came back and tried to get Polanski to open the door but gave up when he didn't.

Polanski takes the stand, and is aggrieved and indignant. While they are able to trip him up in a few places (they bring up the interview, and he's unable to explain why he didn't unlock the door when Angelica Houston knocked on it) he maintains his composure and acts like he's being persecuted.

I'm also thinking that there's a scene where a brick is thrown through the Geimer's house, with the word "whore" written on the brick.

The closing arguments come. The Woman gives the closing argument, being firm but compassionate. Three days pass, and the jury returns with a verdict. Polanski is smug at first, but as the first guilty charge is read out his smile vanishes, and he becomes increasingly shocked as he's found guilty of the other charges and the sentence is declared. As Polanski is led away, Geimer looks at him without fear.

The scene outside the courthouse is triumphant, and Polanski's lawyers can only rant about how they intend to appeal.

Note: I'm thinking the movie can come out in 1997 or so, and it does cause controversy. Some of the celebrities who took Polanski's side are put in the hot seat all over again. Scorsese in particular is dogged.
Good ideas, you did better on the details than I did at some points. If the movie came out in 1997, I can see some people who defended Polanski like Scorsese doing some reflection and then coming out and publicly apologizing.
 
Since the Crime epidemic is coming up next, I'm curious how McKlesky v Kemp goes. If the Supreme court overturns it it will cause backlash short term.
 
It will be interesting to see what a Bin Laden who isn't radicalized does with his life
Well, before he got radicalized and all, Osama did have considerable interest in football. Who knows, maybe he became a moderately successful football player before eventually taking over his father's big construction company.
 
Well, before he got radicalized and all, Osama did have considerable interest in football. Who knows, maybe he became a moderately successful football player before eventually taking over his father's big construction company.
and perhaps Afghanistan's footballing life is more successful as a result!
 
Well, before he got radicalized and all, Osama did have considerable interest in football. Who knows, maybe he became a moderately successful football player before eventually taking over his father's big construction company.
Maybe he could be Saudi Arabia's billionaire.
 
Mr. President, you've done another impressive chapter on Another Changing of the Guard in Moscow. The death of Mikhail Suslov brought Grigory Romanov as his replacement for The Troika. While he's making his mark in Soviet Politics and having his domestic policy an improvement for their country, he's about to face many problems when it comes to foreign policy. With President RFK leading the country and The Second Kennedy Doctrine is showing its muscle in the Cold War Era, they're about to go on a dangerous game with the Soviets fearing that they might won and they're about to be breaking up later on. Their military spending by giving aid to the countries who are enemies to the US is a mistake and ticking time bomb for that decision. I'm strongly hoping that Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, and all of the terrorists groups were in the different path and in a better place ITTL. President RFK, keep fighting those Communists because it's a failed ideology just as you said this to JFK previously.

Well geniuses, looks like we're going to President RFK's Tackling the Crime Epidemic. His Domestic Plan for a Comprehensive Crime Control/Justice Reform Bill would improved country's justice system and crime might be on a decline after he signed the bill. You've said previously that The War on Drugs ITTL would be different. President RFK would view this as a medical issue and re-labeling it as "Diseases of Addiction". With him being a tireless crusader for justice and human rights, this would definitely work indeed with country is in better condition ITTL. We'll be looking forward in the next chapter updates.

Well, Palestine remains as IOTL

On the one hand, this stymies OBL's effort in wheeling and dealing US Defense Money to help build Al-Qaeda and could be an effort at weakening fundamentalist terrorism. OTOH, I could see a weakened ALQ be filled by a more effective and structured Taliban. So, this can go either way. Perhaps butterflies that stymie 9/11 in 2001, but not entirely remove it

Well, this makes me wonder if the belief of the USSR actually falling earlier will happen. Andropov was still a hardliner politically, but ITTL allowed the economic reforms to remain. Could we still see the USSR around with a more "Socialism with Russian Characteristics" element that China holds IOTL?

Overall, loving to see another post again
Bin Laden was radicalized in part by how badly The Mosque Crisis was handled, and that was handled better here ITTL.
It will be interesting to see Osama Bin Laden, who isn't radicalized does with his life ITTL.
Well, before he got radicalized and all, Osama did have considerable interest in Football. Who knows, maybe he became a moderately successful football player before eventually taking over his father's big construction company ITTL.
And perhaps Afghani's Football Life is more successful as a result!
More likely in Saudi Arabia. He's a Saudi National afterall.
True, but perhaps we give Afghanistan something good in terms of sporting.
Maybe he could be Saudi Arabia's Billionaire ITTL after taking over his father's business.
Excerpt from Wikipedia:

His father, Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden, was a Yemeni-Born Saudi Billionaire Business Magnate working primarily in the construction industry. He founded what is today the Saudi Binladin Group and became the wealthiest non-royal Saudi, establishing the wealth and prestige of the Bin Laden Family.
Okay, so he's already a billionaire.
I don't know why did he have to go on the dark side of history if his family has all the businesses and one of the wealthiest families in Saudi Arabia. You could've been a goddamn businessman, follow your father's footsteps, and succeed in his place for God's sake! Or maybe a professional football player like you've always dreamed of! He must go with this path as soon as possible, we just want to put him in a better place ITTL indeed genius! Terrorism has no place in this world, but here we are who are suffering from their actions around the world and living in a terrible place and can't give peace and diplomacy a goddamn chance! Forgive me for my language geniuses, I just want to let this out of my mind and express my reaction to this situation. Without 9/11 ITTL, we're hoping and living in a different world of peace.

The So Have I Movement takes time. Even today, Sexism is well entrenched and there's a lot of pushback. So even after Polanski gets convicted, there's going to be pushback and anger from the sexist manbabies.

I mean even Brock Turner has idiots trying to play down what he did and somehow blame the victim.

Speaking of this movement, I actually had some thoughts on The Roman Polanski Movie: It's based on @PRM's Suggestion with some of my own modifications and ideas.

The beginning shows Samatha Geimer in the aftermath of her assault. She returns home and tells her mother.

The police go and arrest Polanski (despite him trying to get them to shrug off the accusation) from there we see him get processed, fingerprinted, etc.

The District Attorney, John Van de Kamp assigns the case to two prosecutors and imagine a man and a woman. The man is a little skeptical of the case (Partially because he knows how these things go, but there is a part of him that's skeptical) whereas the woman is more willing to take it on.

They meet with Geimer, her parents and her attorney where she tells them the whole story. The man is still a little skeptical but he's not a dick about it and the woman fully supports her.

They have an arraignment for Polanski where the charges are laid out in full terms. He pleads not guilty. Later on, his attorneys and himself meet with the prosecutors and the District Attorney where they offer a deal. Polanski will plead down to lesser charges, "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse with a Minor". When Polanski and his lawyers leave, they discuss it.

Both de Kamp and the man agree they should consider it. The woman is hesitant and says they should talk this over with Geimer and her parents, as well as her attorney.

As you can imagine, Geimer, her parents, and her attorneys are not happy when they are told. This is what I would consider one of the most important scenes in the movie because Geimer says she will not stay silent, she will speak up. Apart of that is I imagine that Geimer looks straight at the man Prosecutor and asks him point blank "Do you believe me?" He's somewhat caught offguard by the question and takes a moment to answer "Yes". Geimer says she wants to go public which makes the prosecutors and her attorney nervous, knowing what usually happens to someone (particularly woman) who accuse a high profile and powerful figure that something awful of this magnitude. She says "I know the risks, but I don't care."

Samantha does her interview with the LA Times. There's a monologue of people getting their papers and seeing the interview. Especially Jack Nicholson and Anjelica Houston who are at this point are like "We're screwed." Marilyn Monroe and Shirley Temple Black are also seen reading the interview; Monroe shows particular horror. However, there are a lot of celebrities and journalists who defend Polanski; many outright slut shame her, others express doubt, and they all play up Polanski's accomplishments as a director. Some of Polanski's lawyers appear on TV outright smearing Geimer. The toll of all of this is shown coming down on Samantha and her parents. Especially her mother who is just you have to imagine full of guilt for introducing her daughter to Polanski in the first place.

However, then Polanski gives the infamous interview where he pretty much says, "Everyone wants to fuck little girls." He also plays down what he did. This is a major turning point in the case; the male and female prosecutors meet Van Der Kamp in his office. He shows them the interview and they are all appalled by it. "Who does this man think he is?" de Kamp asks. Neither the Man or the Woman know what to say (as a sign of development the man is shown to be visibly disgusted, showing that he's more willing to believe her now). Van der Kamp pretty much tells them "Whatever you need to do, you make sure this guy goes to prison.

Marilyn Monroe meets the Geimer Family at their house and has a talk; we find out that they're strongly considering dropping the charges, but Marilyn encourages them to keep fighting, relating her own experiences and offering to pay for their legal fees. She then gives her own public statement in support of Geimer in an interview, before publishing an Op-Ed in the LA Times relating her experience. We also see Shirley Temple Black publish her Op-Ed, as well as her autobiography (this could be around August or September, 1977). We see some of Polanski's Apologists trying to play it down, but it's clear that a few of them have been affected even if they're in denial.

The Trial begins. Samantha Geimer goes first, and we finally see the scene (it's pretty horrific). She maintains her composure under the cross examination, but breaks down afterwards. Nicholson and Houston are put on the stand, and not only are they forced to admit that they left Geimer alone, Huston is forced to admit that she came back and tried to get Polanski to open the door but gave up when he didn't.

Polanski takes the stand, and is aggrieved and indignant. While they are able to trip him up in a few places (they bring up the interview, and he's unable to explain why he didn't unlock the door when Angelica Houston knocked on it) he maintains his composure and acts like he's being persecuted.

I'm also thinking that there's a scene where a brick is thrown through the Geimer's house, with the word "whore" written on the brick.

The Closing Arguments came. The women gives the closing argument, being firm but compassionate. Three days pass, and the jury returns with a verdict. Polanski is smug at first, but as the first guilty charge is read out his smile vanishes, and he becomes increasingly shocked as he's found guilty of the other charges and the sentence is declared. As Polanski is led away, Geimer looks at him without fear.

The scene outside the courthouse is triumphant, and Polanski's lawyers can only rant about how they intend to appeal.

Note: I'm thinking the movie can come out in 1997 or so ITTL and it does cause controversy. Some of the celebrities who took Polanski's side are put in the hot seat all over again. Scorsese in particular is dogged.
Good ideas, you did better on the details than I did at some points. If the movie came out in 1997 ITTL, I can see some people who defended Polanski like Scorsese doing some reflection and then coming out and publicly apologizing.
Keep your ideas going geniuses, I'm also looking forward for this one as well.
 
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For the sequel Trilogy, I've looked at other ideas and there are a few recurring thoughts:

1.) Finn gets equal billing to Rey, and HE's the one who embodies the "heroes can come from anywhere." He's a child soldier taken from his home, and not even given a name. Having him grow would avoid the frankly shameful treatment he got in TLJ and ROS, while also delivering the point of anyone can be a hero better

2.)The Son of Mortis is the ultimate antagonist. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Son

Reddit user Elysium94 had an outline for the sequel trilogy back in 2020, with the idea that the Son was the Greater Scope Villain. His ultimate goal is to burn the Galaxy to the ground and rebuild it under his "benevolent leadership." Thing is, despite being the god of darkness he's actually LESS evil then Palpatine. In his own twisted way he really thinks he's making a better future for everyone, which ties in with the "let the past die", and he's also oddly paternal in that he genuinely cares for his followers.

While the outline wasn't perfect (the Son only really comes into play in the last movie, and should have been built up more), I think that it could potentially be an interesting antagonist, and a worthy final boss for the Skywalker Saga (and the fact that he's less evil then Palpatine despite being an omnicidal maniac is darkly funny).

Here's a backstory which I posted for another thread, albeit with modifications.

1,000,000 years ago saw the rise of the first truly Galaxy spanning civilization, the Celestials (or the Haayot, as they were known then.) The Galaxy was a much harsher and more chaotic place back then, and merely surviving was a struggle. The Haayot were one of many primitive species struggling to survive, but eventually they (as well as other civilizations) suddenly gained the ability to tap into the metaphysical field of energy known as the Force; over time the Haayot became more and more powerful until by 900,000 BBY they had achieved a state close to godhood, with the power to alter reality itself; they could even merge with the force when they died and in doing so become part of the will that guided it. They also learned how to harness the force into technology itself, allowing the creation of such marvels that even today the technology of the current era was little more than primitives using sticks to create fire.

Yet it was not entirely smooth sailing; the dark side existed in the force even back then, born from unrestrained rage, hatred and other negative emotions that inevitably come from sentient beings. During the earliest parts of their civilization a Celestial named Nakhash had fallen to the dark side and created havoc before being put down. This was a painful learning experience for the Celestials, who practiced balance and discipline to make sure that negative emotions would not consume them. For many years balance was maintained, but eventually tragedy would strike.

Over the aeons, many younger species also began to achieve technological advancement and civilization; the Celestials would offer some assistance by unlocking their ability to tap into the force, using their power to fend off dangers that would threaten the younger races, and teaching them the basics of technology so that they could build on it and achieve their own successes. Some species, such as the Gree and Sharu, went on to create their own galaxy spanning civilizations with their own marvels and wonders; sadly, others succumbed to war and violence, destroying themselves and others in the process. This prompted the first real stirrings of discord within the Celestial society; while some felt that the other races should be allowed to find their own way for better or worse, others felt that the Celestials should rule them outright (with reasons ranging from benign paternalism to outright contempt). As the tensions grew, the leaders of the Celestials chose to ignore it, confident that things would work out.

Sadly, they did not. 100,000 years before the Battle of Yavin a Celestial named Typhojem, feeling that the younger races would destroy themselves without the Celestials guiding hand, gathered like minded followers and attempted to launch a coup. When the coup failed, war began and desperate for the power to achieve their ends, Typhojem and his followers began to tap into the power of the Dark Side. For 1,000 years the war raged, with Typhojem and his followers becoming more and more corrupt until through the war, they committed an unforgivable act of treachery; Typhojem asked Wutzek (the leader of the Light Celestials) to meet with him under a flag of truce, in hopes of ending the conflict. Wutzek agreed.......but when he arrived Typhojem murdered him in cold blood before trying to murder his followers. Only Elegast, Wutzek's second, escaped the slaughter, taking over leadership of the Celestials and continuing the war.

This initiated a newer stage of the war, which saw escalating ferocity. Worlds burned and entire species were exterminated, until events culminated in a single climactic battle, one that would make all battles before and since pale in comparison. The Light Celestials launched a final attack on Typhojem's citadel of Sarn (the world that would later be known as Exegol, deep in the Western Quadrant of the Galaxy), and as their war machines and followers destroyed each other Elegast and Typhojem met in single combat. The battle was fierce, but ultimately Elegast was able to triumph over Typhojem, killing the mad deity (Typhojem however, would merge with the Dark Side itself, becoming part of it's driving will). It was ultimately however, a bitter victory. Celestial Civilization was badly ravaged during the war, and over the next 24,000 years the Celestials slowly died off until only Elegast and his two children (Niphal and Eipha, both of whom were born after the war) remained. To prevent another cataclysmic war the remaining Celestials conducted a ritual that dampened the force in the remaining races of the Galaxy (many of which had fled into their own enclaves or devolved into primitive states due to the chaos of the war) to the point that while they could still wield it it would never be to the same extent they once had. In 75,000 BBY a starship containing 10,000 people arrived in the Galaxy through a wormhole, crashing into the planet Notron. This new race (which called themselves Humans) bore somewhat of a resemblance to the Celestials, but only meager force sensitivity. Taking pity, Elegast used some of the remaining Celestial Technology (as well as his own eldritch knowledge) to increase this new race's ability to use the force to the point they could exist alongside other races. However, he also foresaw the rise of other Dark Side using civilizations and so made preparations, crafting a giant called the Tho Yor which would remain on standby. When the dark side bathed the galaxy the Tho Yor would activate and assemble force sensitives from all over the galaxy to a hidden refuge where they could practice the force in safety until they could one day bring justice to the Galaxy. Wit that, Elegast and his two children, now the only surviving Celestials, retreated to the mystical world of Mortis to live out the rest of their days.

Sadly, Elegast underestimated just how confined Eipha felt on a single world, as well as the resentment that burrowed into his heart. Eventually, Eipha did the unthinkable and bathed in the Well of the Dark Side (severing his connection to the light) before attempting to murder his father. His sister Niphal, still a being of light, rose to face him, and Elegast was forced to intervene. To his despair Eipha could not be redeemed, yet he could not bring himself to kill his beloved son. This led to him trying to act as a balancing force between the two; while understandable, this act of selfishness weakened his connection to the light, turning him into a more grey figure. The state of affairs would continue for thousands of years..


Eventually the events of TCW happened, which saw the Ones day out. Eipha refused to accept his fate, and even as a spirit locked in Chaos he wielded power, destroying and absorbing other dark siders until he was at last able to speak across the veil to Yupe Tashu (a fanatic of the Dark Side who was distraught by Palpatine's death). Eipha recruited Tashu, and Tashu helped create the First Order. The First Order are more a band of terrorists, and their big act of destruction in Episode VII serves to create a wound so great that Eipha's spirit is able to cross over. More details would be revealed in Episode 8, and he'd return to full power by absorbing the Dyad between Rey and Kylo. Episode 9 sees him put his endgame into effect; he plans to carry out a dark ritual that will rip open an even bigger rift for longer (or else multiple rifts all over the Galaxy), until all civilization succumbs to the chaos storms.

The final battle would take place on Coruscant beneath the Jedi Temple, and would see Eipha defeated by Rey and Kylo opening themselves up to the Light of the Force and using it to destroy him.....but dying in the process. Finn, the survivor, would inherit the responsibility of guiding the next generation of Jedi.

I think that would be far more grand and epic, and as a conclusion to the Skywalker Saga more impactful. A godlike being is a worthy final boss.
 
It will be interesting to see what a Bin Laden who isn't radicalized does with his life
I actually legit recall a discussion on year nearly a decade ago (I think the thread is long since deleted), but someone suggested that a non radicalized Osama could have used explosions and experimentation for science rather than terrorism, becoming a Mythbusters cast member. I always thought that was an interesting idea. Sammi bin Laden, the pyrotechnic Mythbuster

I don't know why did he have to go on the dark side of history if his family has all the businesses and one of the wealthiest families in Saudi Arabia
Apart from LordYam's statements on the Mosque crisis, I always thought that the fact that OBL was more raised by his more devout mother, leading him to be more inclined on the stricter and more fundamentalist teachings of Islam. Had his father been around or a kinship with a more secular member of his family, then we may see OBL as a businessman being successful in his own right (of course, with Faisal still around as of OTL, it is interesting to see where OBL will go in Faisal's Saudi Arabia)
 
I don't know why did he have to go on the dark side of history if his family has all the businesses and one of the wealthiest families in Saudi Arabia. You could've been a goddamn businessman, follow your father's footsteps, and succeed in his place for God's sake! Or maybe a professional football player like you've always dreamed of! He must go with this path as soon as possible, we just want to put him in a better place ITTL indeed genius! Terrorism has no place in this world, but here we are who are suffering from their actions around the world and living in a terrible place and can't give peace and diplomacy a goddamn chance! Forgive me for my language geniuses, I just want to let this out of my mind and express my reaction to this situation. Without 9/11 ITTL, we're hoping and living in a different world of peace.
Wikipedia's excerpt of Hamida al-Attas, the tenth wife of Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden and mother of the deceased al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden. She was non-traditional, known more for wearing Chanel trouser suits rather than the veiled, conservative attire typical of Saudi women :

[Osama] was a very good kid and he loved me so much." She continued "He was a very good child until he met some people who pretty much brainwashed him in his early 20s. You can call it a cult. They got money for their cause. I would always tell him to stay away from them, and he would never admit to me what he was doing, because he loved me so much." The person Osama met in college was Abdullah Azzam.[10]
 
Wikipedia's excerpt of Hamida al-Attas, the tenth wife of Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden and mother of the deceased al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden. She was non-traditional, known more for wearing Chanel trouser suits rather than the veiled, conservative attire typical of Saudi women :

[Osama] was a very good kid and he loved me so much." She continued "He was a very good child until he met some people who pretty much brainwashed him in his early 20s. You can call it a cult. They got money for their cause. I would always tell him to stay away from them, and he would never admit to me what he was doing, because he loved me so much." The person Osama met in college was Abdullah Azzam.[10]
Tenth wife? Jeez
 
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