Map Thread VI

[Whanztastic]

Originally Posted by SilverSwimmer

Thats pretty awesome, could i get the base map?

This link has a bunch.

OTL 'Standard' Maps of Europe

[Treppe]

Blomma: That is an awesome map. Only nitpick is that the status quo ante is reestablished in the west. The german leaders would rather fight to the bitter end than to accept a white peace.

[I Blame Communism]

Originally Posted by Blomma

Actually, Lithuania had been part of the Teutonic Order for some time so there are historical things that tie them with the Baltic. If it would be independent, what would all those Lithuanians in northern Poland do, wave their hands and be happy at their brethrens fortune and their own disfortune?

Sure, the Teutonic knights were there for long enough for radical German nationalists (and the late Kaiserreich, horrible as it was, wasn't what I'd call "radical") to remember; but in Estonia and Latvia, the Order's legacy still existed in the form of a tremendously influential German landowning/service class. Germans in Lithuania were a small class of urban tradesmen and technical experts, and that was true in Azerbaijan as well, as Susano says.

Vis Lithuanians in Poland, I rather feel the Kaiserreich would create a Greater Lithuania to match the wildest dreams of the Lithuanian nationalists. Neither German nor Lithuanian got on with Pole, and the Belarussians, outside a very small circle of professors considered themselves Russian. The Germans have no reason to uphold and enforce the national ideal of those professors (they seem to have planned to OTL), but the self-determination of the Belarussian in the WW1 timeframe is Russian, and therefore, to the Kaiserreich, irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Blomma

I read somewhere that the Ottomans wanted to vassalise the Azeri region instead of outright annexing it, and it seems like the better thing to do imo.

Either is possible, but Turkish and Azeri are really close. They're actually a continuum with two litrerary standards, and literary Azeri was in its formative stages and would receive a major boost from 1920s Soviet nativisation, when a world where Azerbaijan is dominated by a mix of mildly Islamist and vague Turkish nationalist ideas (those of Musavat and the Federalists), and controlled by the Ottomans whether it's formally independent or not, the pull of standard Turkish will be strong.

Originally Posted by Blomma

It is the capital city of Slovakia, since annexing it would, well, frustrate many Slovakians. It is after all no matter how many Germans who live there their historical capital.

With all respect to the Slovaks from a Slavophile who thinks their country is cool, Slovakia didn't have a history in the sense of most nations. It certainly didn't have a historical capital.

[Iori]

Originally Posted by Kabraloth

"Bundesländer des Bundesreich Deutschland"? I'm going to slap you, especially for the grammar.

Well I was trying to annoy him, but I guess it works on all Germans.

What would the proper way to say 'Federal States of the German Federal Empire' be?

[Susano]

Originally Posted by I Blame Communism

Germans in Lithuania were a small class of urban tradesmen and technical experts, and that was true in Azerbaijan as well, as Susano says.

As said there were small German minoritis in every Eats European country - but Azerbajan isnt European anymore No, seriously, what do you mean here? It does seem as if youre implying a German minority in Azerbaijan...

Oh, btw, only Samogatia, the westernmost part of Lithuania was temporarily controlled by the Order.

But in any case, I agree the Germans would most likely use the strategy of divida et impera in regards to Poland and Lithuania.

Either is possible, but Turkish and Azeri are really close. They're actually a continuum with two litrerary standards, and literary Azeri was in its formative stages and would receive a major boost from 1920s Soviet nativisation, when a world where Azerbaijan is dominated by a mix of mildly Islamist and vague Turkish nationalist ideas (those of Musavat and the Federalists), and controlled by the Ottomans whether it's formally independent or not, the pull of standard Turkish will be strong.

Besides, why vasallise at all? Germany might pressure for Georgian independence vis a vis the Ottomans as it did IOTL, but who cares for Azerbaijan? So, free of outside meddling, the Ottomans could just annex it...

With all respect to the Slovaks from a Slavophile who thinks their country is cool, Slovakia didn't have a history in the sense of most nations. It certainly didn't have a historical capital.

Yyesss, but... I think there certainly was a tendency to simply count Bratislava among the Slovakian-settled parts of Hungary. Mind, I also think its location makes it a bad seat of government either way. Which is why in my Weimar Germany map Ive made Pressburg/Bratislava the official Slovakian capital, but as it is a German autonomous region and at two borders the seat of government is Banská Bystrica (Neusohl).

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Susano

Well, the Ruthenians certainly dont see themselves as Ukrainians. OTOH, Ukrainian nationalists might count Ruthenians as Ukrainians, but you know how those things go. And, uh, thats it, really. The Ruthenians identify as something else than the Ukrainians, and since it is all about identity, they ARE hence something else.

What I meant was that the way I heard it, the modern Ukrainian national identity was basically constructed to consist of a combination of Ruthenians and Great Russians: some Ruthenians might disagree with that of course, but I thought it was more along the lines of Welsh people saying they are either Welsh or British rather than two equal categories on the same level.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by I Blame Communism

Either is possible, but Turkish and Azeri are really close. They're actually a continuum with two litrerary standards, and literary Azeri was in its formative stages and would receive a major boost from 1920s Soviet nativisation, when a world where Azerbaijan is dominated by a mix of mildly Islamist and vague Turkish nationalist ideas (those of Musavat and the Federalists), and controlled by the Ottomans whether it's formally independent or not, the pull of standard Turkish will be strong.

Azeri is still mutually intelligible with Turkish. In the WWI-era they were nearly identical. It isn't language that's an inhibitor to unity, it's socio-religious background and history. Azerbaijan has always been in the Persian cultural sphere and is Shiite.

If the Ottomans had occupied it, it would likely have been annexed, and over time it would probably be fairly easily integrated - but presuming the empire still ends, that would make Turkey a much different place.

[Faeelin]

Hrmm. What would happen to the Ottomans in Armenia, if the Empire had annexed that region of the Caucasus?

[Susano]

Originally Posted by Thande

What I meant was that the way I heard it, the modern Ukrainian national identity was basically constructed to consist of a combination of Ruthenians and Great Russians: some Ruthenians might disagree with that of course, but I thought it was more along the lines of Welsh people saying they are either Welsh or British rather than two equal categories on the same level.

And if enough Welsh (i.e. a majority) say they are something different than British, then the Welsh ARE. That is how identities work. Ruthenians are a national minority in Ukraine these days, definitly something different hence to Ukrainians.

[Dr. Nodelescu]

Originally Posted by The Doctor

Is it just me or are we currently going through a German map fixation?

This is what happens if you have too many German students on vacation. If you want to call it vacation...

[Autanimous]

I made the original map for my ASB Archipeligo Idea, but something told me it might look cool as a blank map. Maybe for a Map Game?
If anyone wants to use it, it's fine (not like I didn't take the original from the website anyways )

But, I don't care if anyone does... I just thought it looked cool blank

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Autanimous

I made the original map for my ASB Archipeligo Idea, but something told me it might look cool as a blank map. Maybe for a Map Game?
If anyone wants to use it, it's fine (not like I didn't take the original from the website anyways )

But, I don't care if anyone does... I just thought it looked cool blank

Whats with the spare Zambia?

[Roberto]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Whats with the spare Zambia?

Have you ever tried going out of the house with only one Zambia?

[The Kiat]

Originally Posted by Autanimous

I made the original map for my ASB Archipeligo Idea, but something told me it might look cool as a blank map. Maybe for a Map Game?
If anyone wants to use it, it's fine (not like I didn't take the original from the website anyways )

But, I don't care if anyone does... I just thought it looked cool blank

Congratulations, you managed to break the entire planet.

[Colonelgoth]

Originally Posted by The Kiat

Congratulations, you managed to break the entire planet.

Tbf, it was Atlas' fault for trusting a stranger to hold it while he pissed.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Roberto

Have you ever tried going out of the house with only one Zambia?

Your right, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

[SilverSwimmer]

Originally Posted by Whanztastic

This link has a bunch.

OTL 'Standard' Maps of Europe

Sweet. Thanks alot.

[Autanimous]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Whats with the spare Zambia?

Woops! Didn't mean to do that!

[Canadian Federation]

Originally Posted by Roberto

Have you ever tried going out of the house with only one Zambia?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Your right, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

Tell me about it. I once tried to leave the house with only one Zambia but then Zimbabwe wouldn't shut up about the whole thing.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

Hrmm. What would happen to the Ottomans in Armenia, if the Empire had annexed that region of the Caucasus?

I don't know - it depends on whether or not all the Azeris had been liquidated yet. I don't believe that's the case, so probably not much. With no Russia and the whole area Ottoman, there's not a lot of realistic options for the Armenians - they can continue a national struggle they can't win, or they can try to make peace with the situation. It also depends on what happens to the Ottoman government and what its post-war relations with Germany are.